Re: [OMC-Boats] Engine Noise

wow! makes sense. that's good to know - and that may have in fact
caused my zero gap. that or it's a diamond ring thats bouncing
around in there.

On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:46 AM, BC Howk wrote:

> I have actually had the no gap problem myself....for some reason I
> installed the #5 plug without that little crush washer, apparently
> that was enough for the cylinder to "tap" the plug and set the gap
> to zero! Really brought in some perspective about how tight that
> combustion chamber is....moral of the story, the washers that come
> with you new plugs ARE important.
>
> Cheers,
> B.C.
>
> On Sep 8, 2009, Thomas Klauber <tklauber@...> wrote:
>
> There is a good book by David Vizard called "How to Rebuild Your
> Small Block
> Chevy" - not sure if it is still in print but may be available
> somewhere. It
> covers all bases. The plug with no gap - could something loose in the
> cylinder have impacted the tip of the plug and bent the end? Just a
> thought.
> I would keep digging till I found the culprit. These motors are so
> unsophisticated by todays standards that I wouldn't worry too much -
> you can
> always figure it out with us and or internet expertise. TK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <omc-boats-request@...>
> To: <omc-boats@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:00 PM
> Subject: OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 29, Issue 11
>
>
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: delving into scaryland.... (BLDFW)
> > 2. Re: delving into scaryland.... (Lee Shuster)
> >
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 06:56:34 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: BLDFW <bldfw@...>
> > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] delving into scaryland....
> > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
> > <omc-boats@...>
> > Message-ID: <119985.68409.qm@...>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I've pulled a?couple of engines apart to do a rebuild.? The tube
> or bar is
> > just holding the valve rocker?arms in place.? It?rests on top of
> the rods
> > and the springs.? The springs hold the actual valves and are held
> in place
> > by a snap ring that holds the little round 'cover' you see.? You
> are safe
> > to remove the bar and the rocker arms.? They will either lift out
> with the
> > bar or will just rest on the rods and valves and you can pluck
> them off
> > one at a time.
> > ?
> > The heads, once unbolted, will have to be gently prided up to free
> them
> > from the block and yes, they will be trashed so you will need a
> new gasket
> > set.? Since you have already gone this?far, I would seriously
> > recommend?considering going the next logical?step and?sending the
> heads
> > out for a valve job.? Would be a shame to waste breaking the
> engine down
> > this far and not doing that but then again,?if it's not necessary,
> no
> > sense in doing it either.
> > ?
> > Good luck and keep us posted!
> > ?
> > -Bill
> > Dallas, TX
> > 1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
> > http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
> > ?
> > ?
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, jd <jdood@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: jd <jdood@...>
> > Subject: [OMC-Boats] delving into scaryland....
> > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
> > <omc-boats@...>
> > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 12:30 AM
> >
> >
> > right on the heels of getting my switch issue overwith,? and
> having a
> > fabulously smooth 30 min test at WOT right after the other day,???
> I was
> > ready for a real outing.? ? but of course, not without a new issue
> to
> > solve springing up.???and not a pretty one.???I was at the dock
> > (fortunately) and had just got back from my test run.???Was
> playing with
> > idle trying to get it to go down to where it's supposed to (sticky
> cable
> > issue i think).???in the spirit of trying to learn what does
> what,? i
> > pulled off the spark arrester and started playing with the flapper
> inside
> > the carb.???a tiny little brass screw that partially held the
> flapper
> > together was barely screwed in and sure enough dropped down into
> the black
> > abyss of the carb, never to be seen again.? ? I put stuff back
> together,?
> > started,? no probs -smooth.???started moving the red throttle
> lever back
> > and forth.? ???all of the sudden a clanking noise.???however,?
> > coincidentally NOT the screw - a much bigger clanking noise,? and
> only at
> > low idle - often causing stalls.???And in fact,? i had heard this
> same
> > noise 2-3 months ago during a start up.???immediately shut it
> down.???it
> > never came back,? and i forgot about it.???so here it was again,
> this time
> > a lot worse and causing engine to stall.? ? a car mechanic guy
> happened to
> > be at the dock,? listened around the engine with me,? sounded like
> it was
> > coming from the port side,? deep within somewhere.? ? It's
> definitely the
> > sound of a "metal piece" sort of bouncing and clanking around
> inside the
> > engine.???It's not a rattle type sound,? more of a random clanking
> - like
> > coins in a dryer.???And it sounds big - not like a tiny brass
> screw, but a
> > nut or something bigger.???ugh.
> >
> >
> > So long story short,? he suggested i start with the valve covers
> and see
> > it anything is loose.? ? the remove the intake manifold.? ? as you
> can
> > see,? have done both.???jiggled a tiny little piece of solder
> (from a
> > previous owner's attempt at repairing carb flapper) out of the
> IM,? but no
> > brass screw.? ? So now I'm on to the only next place I can go,? the
> > cylinders.???Pulled the plugs out,? nothing unusual with them.???
> One had
> > NO gap whatsoever,? but probably unrelated.? time for new plugs
> > regardless.
> >
> > So my questions are these:? ? I'm about the pull off the cylinder
> > heads.???have never gone this far into any engine.???and am flying
> > somewhat blind.???yes,? i have all OMC 3 original manuals.? yes,
> i've read
> > them.???they aren't much help.? ? So excuse my ignorance beyond this
> > point.???But there's no way I am handing my boat off to another
> mechanic
> > for another year.???Gotta go it alone.....
> >
> > 1)As shown in the photo.???there appear to be about 8 bolts
> holding the
> > heads on.? 4 inside,? 4 down by plugs.???but unscrewing those
> doesn't look
> > like it will do much because all the valve stuff.? ? So if i undo
> the 3
> > bolts holding that bar of levers,???will it just come off easily
> and allow
> > for the rest of the head to come off somehow,? or will springs go
> flying
> > everywhere?? I don't wanna mess with valves if i can help it.?
> just wanna
> > get to the cylinders.???So much easier on a lawn mower.? ???Manual
> says
> > remove heads WITH manifolds still attached.???But can't get to a
> couple
> > bolts cause manifold gasket is in the way.? ? So i guess I'll be
> taking
> > those off as part of this.
> >
> > 2) Will the head gaskets be trashed after this,? or salvagable??
> Anyone
> > know right off hang if they are they out there for sale,? or one
> of those
> > impossible to find way overpriced no longer made vintage parts????
> Yes I
> > will poke around online,? but just trying to get an idea....
> >
> > 3) After i get the heads off,? I'm assuming I will be able to see
> the tops
> > of the pistons.???I'm not expecting much,? but perhaps I'll find
> something
> > obvious clanking around in one of the cylinders.???perhaps a
> coin,? or a
> > wedding ring,? or maybe the top half of a spark plug.? ? probably
> not.?
> > ???So where is the next place deeper within that something could be
> > clanking around?? what's under the cylinders?? Could the oil pump be
> > making that noise?? It wouldn't cause the stalling though.
> >
> > glad it's the end of the season.
> >
> > thanks for any help,? Jeff D
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > OMC-Boats@...
> > http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:00:10 -0600
> > From: Lee Shuster <lks@...>
> > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] delving into scaryland....
> > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
> > <omc-boats@...>
> > Message-ID: <71585B53-EB7D-41D5-B56C-36AB5D5199FC@...>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
> > DelSp="yes"
> >
> > JD,
> >
> > One tool that you'll find invaluable is the illustrated OMC Parts
> > Catalog. Available FREE online at BRP-OMC or CROWLEYMARINE.COM. OR
> you
> > can but a REAL HARD COPY at BRP or look forever on eBay. I feel
> like a
> > broken record, but I get the idea few of us have these, by the
> nature
> > of a lot of the questions that crop up here.
> >
> > Careful study of this "EXPLODED" diagram will revel (4) bolts
> holding
> > each cyl head to the block. It is a simple as your lawn mower,
> times 6
> > cylinders. With the OMC PARTS CATALOG it's like you have X_RAY
> vision!
> >
> > New Parts for the 3.7 Litre or 225 cu in ODD_FIRE BUICK V6 are
> > relatively plentiful and easy to obtain including rebuilt short or
> > long blocks. Even the OMC log-style. exhaust manifolds are still
> > available, but they are expensive, see below)
> > Nothing particularly expensive or specialized, as GM and Jeep built
> > this engine for years. Just don't confuse it with it's 231 cu in
> > (3.8L) even-fire sister. Anything you might need for this engine is
> > available, if you carefully explain what you have and ask the right
> > sources. This was probably the second most popular GM engine that
> OMC
> > used after the 100-110-120-140 Chevy-II 4-banger.
> >
> > If this were my project, I'd start by having getting help to remove
> > the stern leg. Then I'd carefully determine if there's room on your
> > boat to pull the engine and intermediate out as a unit to gain
> better
> > working access in a clean shop environment.
> > IF YOU DO LEAVE THE EXHAUST MANIFOLDS ATTACHED -- BE CAREFUL. It is
> > easy to stress (causing cracks) in the head mating flanges by
> lifting
> > on the manifolds, so DON'T DO iT!). This will cost you big money. If
> > it were mine, I'd carefully remove the exhaust manifolds, before
> > removing the heads, to reduce the weight and possibility of ruining
> > the manifolds.
> >
> > And Bill's right, treat that motor to a nice valve job. They'll most
> > likely install modern hardened valve seats (for lead free gas).
> >
> > The timing is right to get started on good off-season project. Also,
> > the fact that you mentioned a spark plug with NADA-gap is
> SIGNIFICANT.
> > That plug most likely has encountered MECHANICAL interference and
> will
> > PROBABLY be a clue as to where the SOURCE of your strange NOISE is.
> >
> > BTW, what year/model is you boat? From you pictures, your Buick V6
> > appears to have been retrofitted from a 72-73 era OMC. Do you have a
> > serial number or model number off the engine tag? It's not all that
> > important, just curious.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > On Sep 8, 2009, at 7:56 AM, BLDFW wrote:
> >
> >> I've pulled a couple of engines apart to do a rebuild. The tube or
> >> bar is just holding the valve rocker arms in place. It rests on top
> >> of the rods and the springs. The springs hold the actual valves and
> >> are held in place by a snap ring that holds the little round
> 'cover'
> >> you see. You are safe to remove the bar and the rocker arms. They
> >> will either lift out with the bar or will just rest on the rods and
> >> valves and you can pluck them off one at a time.
> >>
> >> The heads, once unbolted, will have to be gently prided up to free
> >> them from the block and yes, they will be trashed so you will
> need a
> >> new gasket set. Since you have already gone this far, I would
> >> seriously recommend considering going the next logical step and
> >> sending the heads out for a valve job. Would be a shame to waste
> >> breaking the engine down this far and not doing that but then
> again,
> >> if it's not necessary, no sense in doing it either.
> >>
> >> Good luck and keep us posted!
> >>
> >> -Bill
> >> Dallas, TX
> >> 1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC Sterndrive
> >> http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Tue, 9/8/09, jd <jdood@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> From: jd <jdood@...>
> >> Subject: [OMC-Boats] delving into scaryland....
> >> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
> >> <omc-boats@...
> >> >
> >> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 12:30 AM
> >>
> >> right on the heels of getting my switch issue overwith, and having
> >> a fabulously smooth 30 min test at WOT right after the other day,
> >> I was ready for a real outing. but of course, not without a new
> >> issue to solve springing up. and not a pretty one. I was at the
> >> dock (fortunately) and had just got back from my test run. Was
> >> playing with idle trying to get it to go down to where it's
> supposed
> >> to (sticky cable issue i think). in the spirit of trying to learn
> >> what does what, i pulled off the spark arrester and started playing
> >> with the flapper inside the carb. a tiny little brass screw that
> >> partially held the flapper together was barely screwed in and sure
> >> enough dropped down into the black abyss of the carb, never to be
> >> seen again. I put stuff back together, started, no probs -
> >> smooth. started moving the red throttle lever back and forth.
> >> all of the sudden a clanking noise. however, coincidentally NOT
> >> the screw - a much bigger clanking noise, and only at low idle -
> >> often causing stalls. And in fact, i had heard this same noise
> >> 2-3 months ago during a start up. immediately shut it down. it
> >> never came back, and i forgot about it. so here it was again,
> >> this time a lot worse and causing engine to stall. a car mechanic
> >> guy happened to be at the dock, listened around the engine with
> >> me, sounded like it was coming from the port side, deep within
> >> somewhere. It's definitely the sound of a "metal piece" sort of
> >> bouncing and clanking around inside the engine. It's not a rattle
> >> type sound, more of a random clanking - like coins in a dryer.
> >> And it sounds big - not like a tiny brass screw, but a nut or
> >> something bigger. ugh.
> >>
> >>
> >> So long story short, he suggested i start with the valve covers and
> >> see it anything is loose. the remove the intake manifold. as
> >> you can see, have done both. jiggled a tiny little piece of
> >> solder (from a previous owner's attempt at repairing carb flapper)
> >> out of the IM, but no brass screw. So now I'm on to the only
> >> next place I can go, the cylinders. Pulled the plugs out,
> >> nothing unusual with them. One had NO gap whatsoever, but
> >> probably unrelated. time for new plugs regardless.
> >>
> >> So my questions are these: I'm about the pull off the cylinder
> >> heads. have never gone this far into any engine. and am flying
> >> somewhat blind. yes, i have all OMC 3 original manuals. yes,
> >> i've read them. they aren't much help. So excuse my ignorance
> >> beyond this point. But there's no way I am handing my boat off to
> >> another mechanic for another year. Gotta go it alone.....
> >>
> >> 1)As shown in the photo. there appear to be about 8 bolts holding
> >> the heads on. 4 inside, 4 down by plugs. but unscrewing those
> >> doesn't look like it will do much because all the valve stuff. So
> >> if i undo the 3 bolts holding that bar of levers, will it just
> >> come off easily and allow for the rest of the head to come off
> >> somehow, or will springs go flying everywhere? I don't wanna mess
> >> with valves if i can help it. just wanna get to the cylinders. So
> >> much easier on a lawn mower. Manual says remove heads WITH
> >> manifolds still attached. But can't get to a couple bolts cause
> >> manifold gasket is in the way. So i guess I'll be taking those
> >> off as part of this.
> >>
> >> 2) Will the head gaskets be trashed after this, or salvagable?
> >> Anyone know right off hang if they are they out there for sale, or
> >> one of those impossible to find way overpriced no longer made
> >> vintage parts? Yes I will poke around online, but just trying to
> >> get an idea....
> >>
> >> 3) After i get the heads off, I'm assuming I will be able to see
> >> the tops of the pistons. I'm not expecting much, but perhaps I'll
> >> find something obvious clanking around in one of the cylinders.
> >> perhaps a coin, or a wedding ring, or maybe the top half of a
> >> spark plug. probably not. So where is the next place deeper
> >> within that something could be clanking around? what's under the
> >> cylinders? Could the oil pump be making that noise? It wouldn't
> >> cause the stalling though.
> >>
> >> glad it's the end of the season.
> >>
> >> thanks for any help, Jeff D
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OMC-Boats mailing list
> >> OMC-Boats@...
> >> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OMC-Boats mailing list
> >> OMC-Boats@...
> >> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
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> >
> > End of OMC-Boats Digest, Vol 29, Issue 11
> > *****************************************
>
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Received on Wednesday, 9 September 2009