Thanks Don. You put the words down very well. Same point I was trying to make.
Sorta reminds me of the Sonny & Cher song from the Sixties... "And the Beat Goes On..."
Hope everyone has a safe boating weekend.
Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mandelas
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] overheating
As I read this Saga it reminds me of the time when I changed the water temperature warning light to a temperature gauge.
When I first installed the guage I wasn't exactly sure how to do it.
So, On my first attempt I replaced the sending unit inside the thermostate housing for one that works with my tempeature guage, and then, I just installed the guage in place of the light (using the original two boat wires.). Silly me.
When I turn the key to the on position the temperature guage pegged on the high side.
Then after reading the instructions that came with the temperature gauge I realised I needed to install a third wire to the gauge. After I added the third wire my guage worked fine.
I'm sure this isn't whats causing you overheating problem, but thought I would pass it along in case anyone attempts to do the same thing.
Don.
> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:28:28 -0600
> From: lee.k.shuster@...
> To: omc-boats@...
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] overheating
>
> Jeff,
>
> I wonder if the "instrumentation issue" or electrical wiring / grounding
> "mystery" is as simple as realizing that you have a temperature sender
> incompatibility? I trust you (or your mechanic) do realize the original
> OMC boats all used a simple "idiot" light (at least from the factory)?
> The original temp sensor for the light is a simple "switch" that allows
> the "HOT" light to come on at a pre-determined temp. A "temp" gauge
> sensor on the other hand changes resistance, typically the Teleflex or
> Stewart Warner type temp sensors are commonly found on American boats.
>
> Anyways, thanks for the update and keep after it, you'll get there! Tell
> your mechanic Buicks aren't really much different from Chevies....
>
> Lee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: omc-boats-bounces@...
> [mailto:omc-boats-bounces@...] On Behalf Of JEFF DOOD
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:13 AM
> To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] overheating
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2008, at 2:00 PM, Lee Shuster wrote:
>
> > Sorry, for not following this saga more closely, but is in the same
> > boat that had the confusion over (even/odd-fire) distributors? How did
>
> > that get resolved?
>
> same boat. finally got the original distributer on there after lots
> of trial and error. that helped but didn't completely resolve.
> ended up being a carb thing that was causing the mid throttle
> backfiring (not sure why). then after backfiring went away, lasted
> for a few minutes, then engine developed internal noises - like
> "rebuild" type noises. that's the way my luck seems to work. so
> fortunately had a spare engine. swapped, a bit more carb stuff, and
> viola - no more backfiring or engine noise. actually had it in the
> water at full throttle for a total of about 5 minutes since then.
> Now is this overheating issue. Well, apparantly not actual
> overheating - just the appearance of overheating.
> >
> >
> > Not that it should really matter, But what's the source of this
> > current Buick V6? 231 (odd or even fire?) or 225 (odd fore)? As
> > someone else pointed out, something as simple as the wrong manifold
> > gaskets can lead to problems.
>
> buick odd fire (as best as i can tell). it came from another boat -
> bought used from a guy last summer.
> >
> >
> > Again, I go back to someone else's suggestion: Get a decent
> > (hopefully)
> > color flow diagram of the entire cooling system. Then start breaking
> > the system down into it's individual parts. The original OMC manuals
> > as well as the third-party SELOC & Clymer's are must have for you and
> > your mechanic. A good understanding of the "theory of OMC cooling" is
> > essential and can hopefully reduce the "chasing one's tale" approach
> > to troubleshooting. This is part of what I meant in an earlier post
> > about checking something as simple as the proper connections for the
> > four hose mounting locations for each cylinder bank's
> > manifold-to-thermostat hose routing. Direction of flow matters, kinda
> > like + or - in electricity.
> > Also what spec T-Stat are you running? Remember this is another area
> > cars and boats differ. OMC spec'd at 140 def F 'stat. Cars are
> > typically higher.
> >
> > What is meant by " So he checked for blockage etc - one part of one
> > manifold was running
> > very hot, while the others were fine. swapped out that manifold.
> > Now engine is running at normal temps (albeit, on the hose),......
> >
> > Not sure if this mean manifold is fine to the touch? Or what method or
>
> > metric if instruments are suspect? How about some actual data points,
> > in degrees F?
>
> he's checking everything with some sort of super duper scope which reads
> the temp in F. and i guess he can check specific parts of the engine
> with it, hence being able to pin point that 1/2 one manifold was
> overheating.
> >
> >
> > I understand what you are saying about gauges/instrument sensors, but
> > remember that is only one point of reference.
> > You or your mechanic should be checking flow rates @... various points in
>
> > the entire cooling system. Has anyone pulled the ends off the
> > manifolds and checked for any restrictions or blockages? Swapping
> > parts, especially used ones, when they are KNOWN to be good could lead
>
> > one to draw the wrong or inconclusive results.
> >
> > Don't get too frustrated, sounds like you are making progress. Still
> > some quality boating time this year yet to go.
>
>
> thanks - yeah, it seems to be narrowing down. talked to him several
> times throughout today. at end of the day, it appeared to be down
> to just a wiring issue somehow. (again, just on the hose). The
> temp of engine is now uniform and normal after swapping out
> manifold. Rigging up a gauge straight off battery is confirming
> that. his scope is confirming that. But when it's connected into
> the dash stuff the needle moves right over to 240. Even without the
> engine running. Definitely some elec wierdness, however not as
> simple as you might expect. There's two guys on it, and neither can
> trace down why it's doing that. different gauges are doing the same
> thing, so not a gauge problem. He's already considered grounding
> issues and that wasn't it. 3 different sending units show same
> thing. So he's stuck. Will call him tomorrow morn. I am
> actually feeling pretty good about things right now though. A simple
> wiring thing at this point. However, I can't water test without a
> perfectly functioning gauge. So although it seems minor, until it's
> resolved i am still stuck out of water. But atleast it's not
> overheating - atleast on the hose. The one big thing i have
> learned through all this so far is that testing on the hose is pretty
> worthless. Testing in the water is really essential. I've also
> learned that my mechanic is swearing to never work on another buick
> engine again.
>
> wish i had the time to learn to do most of this myself. i am hating
> having to rely on a mechanic who hates my engine! But i understand his
> frustration. There have been a lot of weird issues with this whole
> thing.
>
> jeff
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: omc-boats-bounces@...
> > [mailto:omc-boats-bounces@...] On Behalf Of JEFF DOOD
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:39 PM
> > To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
> > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] overheating
> >
> > well.......frustratingly close to getting the problem solved. but
> > still not there. it's very weird. here's whats going on - my
> > mechanic has had it for a couple days. it was overheating on the
> > hose for him also (good thing, so not just happening underway). So
> > he checked for blockage etc - one part of one manifold was running
> > very hot, while the others were fine. swapped out that manifold.
> > Now engine is running at normal temps (albeit, on the hose), but
> > every gauge he hooks up to it says it's overheating. He swapped out
> > all the sending units to different ones from another engine (not new,
> > but different). Still, even trying different gauges, it says it's
> > overheating. He is confirming the actual engine temps with a special
> > heat sensor thing he uses - same as fire dept eqpt, say he trusts it
> > more than any gauge. Could be the engine IS actually overheating and
> > his eqpt is bad - but i don't think so - it sounds legit. maybe
> > other mechanics use this too when they can't trust any gauge.
> > nonetheless, assuming that's not the prob - then it would seem like
> > the sending units. but again, he swapped those out too.
> > possibility of 2-3 bad sending units in a row, but that seems like a
> > stretch. any idea?
> >
> > if it were a crack, or blockage, or bad thermostat, or hoses, etc -
> > the engine would be running hot - which it supposedly isn't. yet
> > trying different gauges and sending units didn't make any
> > difference. Any other parts of the chain we're forgetting about
> > here?
> >
> > the weekend is coming and i'm so close to having this thing usable
> > again its driving me nuts!!!
> >
> > jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 11, 2008, at 11:57 AM, Ethan Brodsky wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 11 Aug 2008, JEFF DOOD wrote:
> >>> i am getting very close to being able to use my boat finally, won't
>
> >>> go into all the recent past history but it's been a journey. long
> >>> story short, i have a different engine in it now. another buick
> >>> v-6. runs, starts, sounds good, doesn't backfire and lose all
> >>> power
> >>> at mid throttle, etc. only one problem. when on the hose, it's
> >>> operating at normal temps. when under load, the temp gauge is
> >>> just
> >>> races right up to the overheat range. thought i might be the
> >>> gauge,
> >>> no such luck. on 2nd test, same thing. idling at dock it temp
> >>> gauge barely moves. but after about 10 seconds at full throttle it
> >>> starts moving up and within about 30 it's almost pegged. putting
> >>> on
> >>> a new sending unit next, seeing if that does anything. if it's
> >>> got
> >>> blockage somewhere, then wouldn't it heat up while on the hose at
> >>> the mechanic's shop also? it's getting water through there.
> >>> pretty
> >>> sure mechanic replaced impeller at last go around. and there
> >>> doesn't seem to be any obvious leaks or cracks anywhere in the
> >>> manifolds. any ideas?
> >>
> >> My first thought would be to check the thermostat? Is it working.
> >> Is it
> >> the right one? Engines in cars usually ship with thermostats that
> >> open around 180-200F, while marine engines are usually supposed to
> >> run
> >
> >> around 140-180F. If you've got an automotive thermostat in there,
> >> the
> >
> >> gauge will show it as overheating all the time, and it'll be running
> >> a
> >
> >> lot hotter than it should. If it's sticking shut, that would also
> >> cause overheating.
> >>
> >> If that's not it, I'd ensure that all the cooling passages are open
> >> by
> >
> >> testing them one at a time. Look at a drawing of the coolant
> >> ciculation patterns (in the service manual) and hook up a garden hose
>
> >> (engine
> >> off) to
> >> each of the inlets and make water comes out the corresponding outlet.
> >> Check both passages in each exhaust header and the engine block
> >> passages.
> >> Also try opening the two drain cocks on each side of the engine and
> >> see if you have water pouring out.
> >>
> >> Ethan
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ethan Brodsky
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> OMC-Boats@...
> >> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
> >
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Received on Saturday, 16 August 2008
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