Bill
Your approach to diagnosing the ball gears appears sound. Since "someone" has already apparently changed out the powerhead and the 4-cap, long leg drive, it's difficult to say how long those ball gears have been mated? YOU MAY HAVE AN INTERMEDIATE SECTION of unknown origin? From your pictures, the paint colors and wiring changes appear to validate my thinking.
I don't have any first-hand knowledge of "Kits" or pricing.
What I would say, just as a friendly caution, IS THIS: It's very easy to get an incorrect part, especially when you aren't totally sure of the unit's PEDIGREE. Just be sure you understand that and know their return and re-stocking policies, in case they don't get you parts that fit correctly. My advice is work with a supplier who really understands the OMC Electric Shift LONG-LEGS from 1964 to 1967. The 4-bolt cap drives are indeed different and the parts are harder to correctly source.
I would highly recommend you acquire an OMC (factory) parts manual for the sterndrive (not the boat) so you can reference OMC PART NUMBERS. The exploded illustrations are also helpful.
Lee
________________________________________
From: omc-boats-bounces@... [omc-boats-bounces@...e.com] On Behalf Of BLDFW [bldfw@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:29 AM
To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
Thanks Lee,
My first exposure to the 'odd-fire' is through your site so part of my search on the listing that came up(http://www.enginepartswarehouse.com/enginecatalog/GENERALMOTORS.PDF) was to check the 'odd-fire' reference. It was referenced in several locations but not as it related to my particular casting ID. Given my almost non-existent knowledge in this area, I shall defer to your experience.
With regards to the gear check, I'm going to check that today. I've removed the top of the drive and can see the upper gear head (looks pristine by the way). I'll be back to shortly with the results.
Following up on my earlier inquiry regarding the ball gears, the gear head on the outdrive has more wear than that of the transom gear. The manual I've been reading makes a particular reference to insuring (when the outdrive is removed) the gears are remeshed in their same position suggesting some type of significance to matching the existing wear patterns. If left as is, the outdrive gear is going to generate differing wear on the transom gear moving forward. Since the outdrive is already off and torn down for seal replacement, it seems to me now is the time to just replace them and start fresh. I see a kit on eBasicPower.com for about $201.00. Are you aware of a better source for that?
Thanks!
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Tue, 5/26/09, Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 9:24 AM
That's good to know -- so you'll be able to correctly source engine parts. Now we just need to figure out what sterndrive you have? Have you figured out what upper gear ratios you have yet?
But I beg to differ, as all Buick V6's with that casting number and 3.7L or 225 cu in use ODD-FIRE Crankshafts.
This was due to the fact that the engine was exactly 2/3'rds of the Buick 300 V8. Result is a slightly rough but distinctive idle due to the 120-degree spacing of the crank throws.
(OMC only used odd-fire Buick V6's until they switched to the 90-degree Chevy V6 much later.)
You can read all about the technology and history of the world's first mass produced V6 (both odd-fire and even fire) at: http://hhscott.com/evinrude/buick_v6.htm
Lee
On May 25, 2009, at 11:14 PM, BLDFW wrote:
Hi Lee,
I looked up the block casting number (1381623) stamped on my V6 and found it to be a 64-67 Buick V6 225. If does not appear to be an "odd fire' version.
Also, I added a bunch of new outdrive/impeller waterpump pics on my photo site. You can click on the "outdrive" tag to the left to narrow it down.
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lib1@...>> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster (lib1) <lib1@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lib1@...>>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=omc-boats@...imate.com>>
Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 7:14 PM
>From the looks of things in your electrical pictures, "someone" has replaced your engine (not original OMC block color) which also explains why you can't find an OMC ID plate that is normally riveted on the Port cyl head near the front. It can be hard to tell which Buick V6 you have (the made cu in displacements of 196-225-231-odd and 231-even and 252-even. You'll have to check casting numbers to determine which block you have and then look them up on the many Buick V6 web sites. Let's assume for now you have a 225 odd-fire V6 that was built by GM or Kaiser Jeep. I would be concerned (as perviously mentioned about an automotive water pump, because most shade-tree mechanics would just trade engines and not move over the marine-rated accessories.
Beginning in 1969 OMC began using two large ROUND 10-pin electrical connectors, that replaced two white, rectangular Molex connectors and a dangerous open (hot) terminal strip. The YELLOW Round Connector is used to bundle 6 wires, used for Bilge pump/blower, Tilt Motor, Tilt Relays and Electric Shift Control. The original BLACK Round connector bundles 9 wires that all route to engine functions, like instrument sensors, starter, alternator, regulator, coil, essentially all engine attached devices. On pre 69 models the open terminal block had three heavy current wires. A Ground (Black) and two Positives, one Green and one Brown. The Brown was the Alternator output. The Green was used to feed the tilt relays and starter relay. Its hard to tell from the pictures how these are presently wired, but they don't appear to follow factory conventions.
It looks like "someone" took some short cuts when they replaced your engine, outdrive and possible your intermediate section as well (with the older style electrical terminal block). The terminal barrier strip not present on 1969 - 1970 OMC boats is the give away. The also eliminated the Black round engine service connector and hard-spliced in the engine wiring with what look a lot like yellow wire nuts (could be crimp-ons, can really tell). They also did some rather "funky" wiring like the large red wire they have run down to the starter or battery to feed the tilt relays. On pre-68 mode this wire normally ties into the barrier strip, which apparently came with your older replacement intermediate section.
Just curious, what color is your outdrive leg painted? Does it show evidence of having been repainted? (My 1970 catalog shows a navy blue sterndrive on the Evinrude explorer.) There are a lot of not so obvious differences on the older 4-bolt cap units. Since they were older and only made 3-4 years, vs a 10-year run on the 5-cap units, many parts are not interchangeable and are much harder to fine. I wouldn't worry as much about the condition of the ball gears, as I would counting input shaft to prop shaft rotations, to determine what overall (engine to prop) gear ratio you have. Ideally the V6 at sea level should run a 1.54:1.00 overall ratio, or if you want to count upper gear teeth you should have 25 and 25 on a V6. (lower gears are always 15 and 23 teeth regardless of engine).
Lee
On May 24, 2009, at 1:34 PM, BLDFW wrote:
Hi Lee
I attached a pic of the engine compartment that shows one plug and a bundle of wires that might have been a plug at one time. What's that tell you?
Also, exactly where would I find the engine ID?? I've tried to find it before but not sure I'm looking in the right place. In the center of the block at the top rear is a number; 1381623, along with a number 5 by itself and the GM stamp. If that's not it, tell me where else to look. I didn't see any stampings at the end of the heads so not sure where else to look.
Also, attached are two pics of the ball gears. Seems the gear on the outdrive is more worn than the one on the transom. Is that normal? In anycase, I think I'm going to go ahead and replace them....or should I do only the outdrive? Thoughts?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Sun, 5/24/09, Lee Shuster <lks@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lks@...>> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <lks@...<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lks@...>>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Outdrive Vintage Question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com<http://us.mc812.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=omc-boats@...imate.com>>
Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 1:48 PM
You have an older drive or at least one that "someone" has turned into a "hybrid." I can think of other genetic terms but won't use them on the family-oriented lists.
Welcome to the world of old boats. It will be interesting to hear what you find, including gear ratios. (Often times "someone" will exchange a sterndrive from a different boat with different gear ratios).
Check something on the Buick V6 for me? Can you locate the engine ID tag and find a model number? Does you Buick have two large ROUND electrical conectors (One Yellow, One Black) located on the Starboard, Aft area of the engine?
Most likely the engine is original and the Sterndrive has been replaced.
Lee
On May 24, 2009, at 12:20 PM, BLDFW wrote:
My Explorer is a 1970 model according to the plate on the riser. In studying the service manual as I start to dismantle the outdrive, it suggests that the outdrive is a 1967 or earlier model. The manual states;
"Remove the exhaust housing cover attaching screws. On models since 1967, five screws secure the exhaust housing cover in place; prior to 1967, only four screws were used."
Is it normal that a '70 vintage Evinrude would have a '67 or earlier vintage outdrive or should I assume it's been replaced at some point?
Thanks.
Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
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