Lee,
I am one person in the group who would like to hear more about
the major technical changes made around 1967-1/2 when the "16C" improved versions (5-bolt caps) were introduced.
I would like to learn more about the differences because last year when I replaced a cracked propeller shaft in my 1967 lower unit and changed the impeller in the upper unit I discovered that the parts in the upper unit were different than what the 1967 HU/HUE-15S manual indicated it should be. The upper unit appeared to be a later revision
Note* according to the part diagrams listed on the BRP site the upper unit appeared to be from a 1973, is that possible?)
BRP Site:
The unit has operated very well since I purchased the boat.
Don Mandelas
From: lib1@...
To: omc-boats@...
Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 09:08:56 -0600
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Welch plug -- OH DUH...Never mind
Bill,
You are making progress -- but you aren't quite home yet.
I've got another assignment for you, Bill: In the late 1965, early 1966 timeframe OMC changed the LOWER gear case pinion and forward/reverse gears, on the HU (E) and TU (E) units.
We tend to generalize after 1967 that OMC used common lower sets, changing only the upper gear sets for specific engine applications
(on the "HEAVY DUTY" or large gear case units, aka the Type 14 unit as it uses a 14-inch dia. prop.) But in the early days things were constantly changing/improving.
Check to see if letters "H" or "HT" are stamped on the lower gear case housing. Newer HT units are 15:23 gear sets and earlier H units use 19:29 gear sets.
You should have about a 1:52:1 OVERALL ratio. Again, I wouldn't be overly concerned, at least you've ID'ed the drive (via the welch plug) well enough to know what
upper-unit and pump-related parts you will need (assuming "someone" hasn't been inside the drive replacing parts.
(The small difference between these lower-end two gear ratios is not of enough significance that propellor swapping would be called for.)
Note the earlier 1964 HU 12M's used a 16-28 lower gear set, which resulted in a shorter (1:75:1) OVERALL ratio.
Thus, the taller (1:52:1) ratio would typically use about 2-inches less prop pitch on a given load.
(Here, "taller" means lower numerically, resulting in fewer engine RPM's for every turn of the prop.)
If this seems nit-picky if was consistent with OMC's engineering program to constantly improve the quality of their products.
The gear ratio changes increased overall efficiency, permitted use of a larger range of propellors, at a greater range of altitudes, improved gear life and reduced gear noise.
If this topic is of interest to the larger group, I will talk more about the major technical changes made around 1967-1/2 when the "16C" improved versions (5-bolt caps) were introduced.
(One of the major design changes was the elimination of the "plunger" type oil pump that was driven off the prop shaft in the bottom case.) The are pros and cons to this design change but I
will save that for another thread.
However, these design changes remained in production for over a decade
at a time when OMC electric-shift stringers dominated the sterndrive market.
Lee
On May 27, 2009, at 10:18 PM, BLDFW wrote:
It was staring me right in the face and over looked the whole time!!! It was a bit dirty but there it was.
HU 13E = 1965 150hp SUCH A DEAL!!
-Bill
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, BLDFW <bldfw@...> wrote:
From: BLDFW <bldfw@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Manual question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 10:32 PM
If only it were that easy. I just check the top of the upper unit and am not seeing anything like what you are referring to. I even checked the intermediate housing to see if it was there. Any chance you have a pic with a big old pointy thing showing the spot?
Also, this afternoon, after cleaning all the gunk and grime off the intermediate housing, I'm seeing a lot of maroon base coloring under white paint. Earlier I mentioned seeing 'navy' blue peaking through the white paint on the upper gear casing but I'm also finding evidence of marroon. Was there a marroon colored outdrive or is that possibly just the base coat? I've not had a chance to go back and check the Ultimate galleries to see for myself so thought I'd toss that question out there.
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lee Shuster <lks@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <lks@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Manual question
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 9:35 PM
Bill,
I forgot about the "welch" plug ID located on the Port side on the top of the vertical drive assembly of the sterndrive leg. Early models had the sterndrive model number stamped on it. (HUE-12M for example would be a 1964 150 hp Buick V6).
Later model sterndrives actually had a 6-digit part number and horsepower rating visible. My 1971 has "210 HP" clearly stamped into the welch plug.
If you are standing behind the point and can see the black rubber bumper at the top of the drive unit, the welch plug should be visible, just slightly to the portside of the bumper.
The round welch plug is visible when the rudder is either straight ahead or in the forward starboard thrust position. If the rudder (prop) is turned to the Port side then the rotating upper cover will obscure the welch plug.
It would be interesting to see what other owners report finding on their sterndrive welch plugs. I'll bet you aren't the only owner with a potentially non-original unit.
Hope this helps to ID what you got.
Lee
On May 27, 2009, at 3:00 PM, BLDFW wrote:
Thanks Lee,
I do appreciate the assistance! I'm learning a butt load from this experience and I hope everyone else is benefitting too! I'll stick with it because it's the boat itself that strikes my fancy. The non-original engine/drivetrain is a tad of a let down but they appear to be at least in sync with each other (both 64-67's) so it's not the end of the world and I'm not one to through the towel in at the first whiff of trouble.
I went back to the recently remembered Ken Cook website where they have manuals listed in threes....Owners, Parts, and Service and I know the Parts manual is critical. I want to get as close to the right versions as possible so I've been out cleaning on stuff hoping against hope of finding a model number stamped somewhere. No chance of that I see. I'll go back through all the emails and coallate the suggestions on checking the ratios to see what it comes out as. Then I'll know what set to order.
My favorite new mantra: It's ONLY money!
Jeesh!! ;-)
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...> wrote:
From: Lee Shuster <lee.k.shuster@...>
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] Manual question
To: "'Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's'" <omc-boats@...timate.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 3:35 PM
No difference. In subsequent later years OMC combined the manuals. 120-155-210 or 4-6-8 essentially the same, except for gear ratios.
What this manual doesn't cover is illustrated parts, which you really need if you are going to attempt to reassemble and use this 4-cap unit with any chance at all of finding the correct parts. And even then you are facing a night-marish, up-hill, prolonged battle.
The reason most sane people (who know OMC electric shift drives) run from the 64-67 drives is simply OMC made so many minor but important, evolutionary service and reliability improvements, from 1968 to 1977 on the electric stringers. (Except smart people run even faster from the 62-68 DU-series (smaller) drive!). OMC's devotion to product improvement was fanatical, yet effective.
Nothing is impossible (given enough time & dollar resources) but I would highly encourage you to find the correct (for your boat/engine) sterndrive unit, that when properly rebuilt will provide a lifetime of reliable service. It may indeed exceed you budget, but if done properly it will exceed your expectations. It is indeed unfortunate that "Someone" along they way messed up your boat's "pedigree." But know you are armed with the knowledge to un do their mistake (or not.)
Been there.... Done that.
Lee
From: omc-boats-bounces@... [mailto:omc-boats-bounces@...ultimate.com] On Behalf Of BLDFW
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:33 PM
To: omc-boats@...
Subject: [OMC-Boats] Manual question
Aside from perhaps a ratio difference, is there any other significant difference between a 120hp and a 155hp OMC Factory manual if they are the same year or in the 64-67 span?
-Bill
Dallas, TX
1970 Evinrude Explorer - 155 Buick V6 - OMC sterndrive
http://www.photobucket.com/evinrude_explorer
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