Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing

Thanks Andy. I didn't use ATF. I used Citgo stuff. I looked it up and
compared it to other Type C lubes, but I'm a bit ignorant of technical
chemical terms. So much of the terminology is lost on me. And the
Citgo info doesn't list specs on Dielectric properties. Heres the
stuff I used. Looks like it's suitable, but hard for me to say.
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/10015.pdf Either way, it's getting
changed before next season though. The stuff I drained looked pretty
nasty, so I figure what's in there now is more of a flush than a long
term fill.

Justin

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Andy Perakes<aperakes@...> wrote:
> If the OMC engineers specified a gear lube, it was for good reason and I
> wouldn't substitute an ATF. ATF and gear lube are dramatically different
> animals. From a gear perspective, you can only use ATF with helical, bevel,
> and spiral bevel gears. Hypoids need gear lube to address the sliding
> motion of the gear teeth induced by the offset. (For those not familiar
> with the terms, a spiral bevel is a hypoid with no offset -- the pinion
> centerline intersects the ring gear centerline. Of course a spiral bevel is
> also a bevel gear with curved instead of straight gear teeth.) On the flip
> side, you wouldn't want to use a gear lube in a hydraulic application
> because the pumping losses would be tremendous at colder temperatures. The
> only time I've substituted ATF for a gear lube was on a transfer case where
> I knew the gear lube was used solely to have a common lube between the axles
> and t-case for service simplicity. Otherwise the two are not
> interchangeable, generally speaking. Again, from a gear perspective, ATF
> will have a much thinner oil film which means you will spend more time in
> the "boundary" or "mixed regime" regions instead of the hydrodynamic
> region....which translated means gears will wear faster. Modern
> transmissions are loaded with electronics/wires (as are many transfer cases
> and axles) which means the lubes must be obviously compatible. With a
> little online effort you can look up the certification (i.e. certified to
> SAE or ASTM standard....) on the lube at your local store and see if it
> meets your needs.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster" <lks@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
> <omc-boats@...>
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing
>
>
>> I'll let you do the math. OMC built electric-shift stern drives from 1962
>> to 1977.
>>
>> Yours is most likely a 1964 - 1970. I would call tha ant "older," OMC
>> sterndrive in relative terms, for what that's worth?
>>
>> I'm not that familar with the properties of Dextron II or III having never
>> owned a GM product that uses it in an automatic transmission.
>> I've never seen a cross-reference to Dextron as a recommended OMC Type C
>> subsitute. But who knows? Maybe it has similar properties?
>>
>> It's easy to use google to look up the properties of GM's Dextron II or
>> III :
>> http://www.realhamradio.com/Pennzoil%20ATF%20MSDS.pdf
>>
>> It does have a high dialetric property (35 kV), but I can't vouch for the
>> other parameters compared to the specs for "real" Type C or "Premium"
>> Blend.
>>
>> If you wanna try and use it fine by me. If I was in your shoes, I'd drain
>> it ASAP and put the right stuff in there, regardless of cost.
>>
>> Congrats! You've stumbled onto an interesting point, and again this is NOT
>> a dumb question.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Justin DeSantis wrote:
>>
>>> I always heard that the dielectric properties are what makes type C
>>> different. But I'll tell you where my concern came from. Today being
>>> Sunday, I couldn't go to the boat shop to get OMC Type C gear lube. I
>>> had 3 tubes of Sierra brand type C, which I was comfortable with. But
>>> the local hardware store had tubes of marine gear lube that was marked
>>> suitable for Type C applications. I was shocked they had it, so I
>>> grabbed a couple tubes, just in case. It was cheap too. I think it was
>>> Citgo branded. Anyhow, while it says type C on the front, on the back,
>>> in smaller print it said something to the effect of "Not suitable for
>>> use in some older electric shift outdrives that require Dextron II or
>>> Dextron III fluid." So that gave me reason to pause. Why would it be
>>> Type C yet not be suitable for some electric shift models? Anyhow,
>>> that was the reason I asked.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Lee Shuster<lks@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One other note I forgot to mention.
>>>>
>>>> My Dad, who introduced me to boating holds a Chem Eng degree for Ohio
>>>> State.
>>>> He worked his entire career for Ashland Oil, the parent company of
>>>> Valvoline.
>>>>
>>>> Back in the sixties, we owned an electric-shift J/E V4. My Dad was also
>>>> curious about the "mysterious" OMC Type C lubrication requirement and
>>>> had a
>>>> sample tested by the Valvoline engineering labs.
>>>>
>>>> They reported back (and I don't have their response) that their testing
>>>> revealed some amazing qualities:
>>>>
>>>> What I remember in their report was:
>>>>
>>>> 1) very high diaelectric (non-conductive) properties (that makes sense)
>>>> and
>>>> 2) excellent anti-corrosive properties.
>>>>
>>>> I can't recall if they ever "reverse engineered" and offered their own
>>>> Type
>>>> C product, but they were extremely impressed.
>>>>
>>>> Just buy the right stuff and be done with it, No biggie.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Received on Sunday, 30 August 2009