Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing

"Costly"? ;-)

While we're talking lube, how picky do I need to be about the numerous
zerks on the outdrive? Before I'm done with my little post purchase
clean-up, I want to lube all those zerks, plus the trailer. Would be
nice to use the same gun on all of them.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Lee Shuster<lks@...> wrote:
> It never ceases to amaze me how completely engineered these OMC units were.
> These guys must have been on their "A" game in the late fifties to early
> seventies designing these products.
>
> I'm sure OMC went to great lengths to insure reliability. Once they figured
> out what lubrication was needed, they probably just called Mobil or one of
> the other "big" oil companies to formulate their unique "premium" blend.
>
> Wonder what Type "C" stood for?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
>
>> If the OMC engineers specified a gear lube, it was for good reason and I
>> wouldn't substitute an ATF. ATF and gear lube are dramatically different
>> animals. From a gear perspective, you can only use ATF with helical, bevel,
>> and spiral bevel gears. Hypoids need gear lube to address the sliding
>> motion of the gear teeth induced by the offset. (For those not familiar
>> with the terms, a spiral bevel is a hypoid with no offset -- the pinion
>> centerline intersects the ring gear centerline. Of course a spiral bevel is
>> also a bevel gear with curved instead of straight gear teeth.) On the flip
>> side, you wouldn't want to use a gear lube in a hydraulic application
>> because the pumping losses would be tremendous at colder temperatures. The
>> only time I've substituted ATF for a gear lube was on a transfer case where
>> I knew the gear lube was used solely to have a common lube between the axles
>> and t-case for service simplicity. Otherwise the two are not
>> interchangeable, generally speaking. Again, from a gear perspective, ATF
>> will have a much thinner oil film which means you will spend more time in
>> the "boundary" or "mixed regime" regions instead of the hydrodynamic
>> region....which translated means gears will wear faster. Modern
>> transmissions are loaded with electronics/wires (as are many transfer cases
>> and axles) which means the lubes must be obviously compatible. With a
>> little online effort you can look up the certification (i.e. certified to
>> SAE or ASTM standard....) on the lube at your local store and see if it
>> meets your needs.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster" <lks@...>
>> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
>> <omc-boats@...>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing
>>
>>
>>> I'll let you do the math. OMC built electric-shift stern drives from
>>> 1962 to 1977.
>>>
>>> Yours is most likely a 1964 - 1970. I would call tha ant "older," OMC
>>> sterndrive in relative terms, for what that's worth?
>>>
>>> I'm not that familar with the properties of Dextron II or III having
>>> never owned a GM product that uses it in an automatic transmission.
>>> I've never seen a cross-reference to Dextron as a recommended OMC Type C
>>> subsitute. But who knows? Maybe it has similar properties?
>>>
>>> It's easy to use google to look up the properties of GM's Dextron II or
>>> III :
>>> http://www.realhamradio.com/Pennzoil%20ATF%20MSDS.pdf
>>>
>>> It does have a high dialetric property (35 kV), but I can't vouch for
>>> the other parameters compared to the specs for "real" Type C or "Premium"
>>> Blend.
>>>
>>> If you wanna try and use it fine by me. If I was in your shoes, I'd
>>> drain it ASAP and put the right stuff in there, regardless of cost.
>>>
>>> Congrats! You've stumbled onto an interesting point, and again this is
>>> NOT a dumb question.
>>>
>>> Lee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Justin DeSantis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I always heard that the dielectric properties are what makes type C
>>>> different. But I'll tell you where my concern came from. Today being
>>>> Sunday, I couldn't go to the boat shop to get OMC Type C gear lube. I
>>>> had 3 tubes of Sierra brand type C, which I was comfortable with. But
>>>> the local hardware store had tubes of marine gear lube that was marked
>>>> suitable for Type C applications. I was shocked they had it, so I
>>>> grabbed a couple tubes, just in case. It was cheap too. I think it was
>>>> Citgo branded. Anyhow, while it says type C on the front, on the back,
>>>> in smaller print it said something to the effect of "Not suitable for
>>>> use in some older electric shift outdrives that require Dextron II or
>>>> Dextron III fluid." So that gave me reason to pause. Why would it be
>>>> Type C yet not be suitable for some electric shift models? Anyhow,
>>>> that was the reason I asked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Lee Shuster<lks@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> One other note I forgot to mention.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Dad, who introduced me to boating holds a Chem Eng degree for Ohio
>>>>> State.
>>>>> He worked his entire career for Ashland Oil, the parent company of
>>>>> Valvoline.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back in the sixties, we owned an electric-shift J/E V4. My Dad was
>>>>> also
>>>>> curious about the "mysterious" OMC Type C lubrication requirement and
>>>>> had a
>>>>> sample tested by the Valvoline engineering labs.
>>>>>
>>>>> They reported back (and I don't have their response) that their
>>>>> testing
>>>>> revealed some amazing qualities:
>>>>>
>>>>> What I remember in their report was:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) very high diaelectric (non-conductive) properties (that makes
>>>>> sense) and
>>>>> 2) excellent anti-corrosive properties.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't recall if they ever "reverse engineered" and offered their own
>>>>> Type
>>>>> C product, but they were extremely impressed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just buy the right stuff and be done with it, No biggie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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Received on Sunday, 30 August 2009