Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing

The ball gears transfer power from the engine crank to the stern drive
input. They will allow power to transfer with the drive up, but as Lee
says, they will quickly wear out if you drive like this for long periods or
anything above idle. I launch in a fairly shallow creek and idle approx.
1/2-mile with the top of the rudder housing just hitting the surface; I've
done so for decades without appreciable wear, but I never go above idle.
Check out the drawings on the BRP website while you're waiting for your
manual:
http://epc.brp.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fdefault.aspx%3flang%3dE%26brands%3dskidoo%2cseadoo%2catv%2csportboat%2cej&lang=E&brands=skidoo,seadoo,atv,sportboat,ej
- view catalog
- select stern drive from the pull-down products menu
- select your year then horsepower
- select your build code

If your year and HP aren't listed, select the closest you can find and go
from there.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin DeSantis" <duc1098desmo@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
<omc-boats@...>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing

> The ball gears are the tilt gears? My service manualhasn't arrived
> yet, so I'm not super familiar with all of Johnson's terminology.
> Today is lube day. I'm taking the grease gun to it and hitting every
> zerk I can find.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Lee Shuster<Lee.Shuster@...>
> wrote:
>> BTW, ball gears will last forever if you don't abuse them. Remember one
>> thing ->>>> The TILT is NOT a TRIM.
>>
>> Avoid running in shallow areas for more than a few seconds, it also makes
>> cooling more risky.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: omc-boats-bounces@...
>> [omc-boats-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Andy Perakes
>> [aperakes@...]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:52 PM
>> To: Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's
>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing
>>
>> You can also use OMC grease, but I'd say those applications are less
>> sensitive (since they are not part of the drivetrain -- the tilt bearings
>> only get "exercised" when you tilt the unit, not when the boat is
>> running)
>> as long as you are using a marine grade grease. As you grease all those
>> zerks, be sure to rub some grease on each face of the ball joints (aka
>> spider gears). I check the ball joints EVERY time I go out. If they
>> don't
>> have a think film of grease on them, I will hit them again, even if it
>> means
>> greasing them every time I go out. I also rub grease on the face of the
>> tilt gears and check to ensure they are clean, no debris, etc. We're
>> been
>> religious about this routine since purchasing the boat new in 1967 (see
>> original sales slip on Phil's site) and this (along with a little good
>> luck;
>> at least until recently), has allowed us to run for 42 years without ever
>> servicing the stern drive (I've had to replace one tilt cog and one tilt
>> solenoid, but nothing in the actual drivetrain). Unfortunately I'm now
>> about to learn all about the inside since I was stupid enough to trust
>> others to tell me the drive was clear -- something I normally don't do
>> and
>> will never do again!
>>
>> BTW, I bought a new OMC gun just 1-2 years ago at my local dealer so I
>> know
>> they're still available. I use the kind that screws onto the end of the
>> tube and has a little button you press to pump out the grease. My old
>> one
>> petered out after 40 years of service, but otherwise this design is well
>> adapted to these drives.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Justin DeSantis" <duc1098desmo@...>
>> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
>> <omc-boats@...>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing
>>
>>
>>> "Costly"? ;-)
>>>
>>> While we're talking lube, how picky do I need to be about the numerous
>>> zerks on the outdrive? Before I'm done with my little post purchase
>>> clean-up, I want to lube all those zerks, plus the trailer. Would be
>>> nice to use the same gun on all of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Lee Shuster<lks@...> wrote:
>>>> It never ceases to amaze me how completely engineered these OMC units
>>>> were.
>>>> These guys must have been on their "A" game in the late fifties to
>>>> early
>>>> seventies designing these products.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure OMC went to great lengths to insure reliability. Once they
>>>> figured
>>>> out what lubrication was needed, they probably just called Mobil or one
>>>> of
>>>> the other "big" oil companies to formulate their unique "premium"
>>>> blend.
>>>>
>>>> Wonder what Type "C" stood for?
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the OMC engineers specified a gear lube, it was for good reason and
>>>>> I
>>>>> wouldn't substitute an ATF. ATF and gear lube are dramatically
>>>>> different
>>>>> animals. From a gear perspective, you can only use ATF with helical,
>>>>> bevel,
>>>>> and spiral bevel gears. Hypoids need gear lube to address the sliding
>>>>> motion of the gear teeth induced by the offset. (For those not
>>>>> familiar
>>>>> with the terms, a spiral bevel is a hypoid with no offset -- the
>>>>> pinion
>>>>> centerline intersects the ring gear centerline. Of course a spiral
>>>>> bevel is
>>>>> also a bevel gear with curved instead of straight gear teeth.) On the
>>>>> flip
>>>>> side, you wouldn't want to use a gear lube in a hydraulic application
>>>>> because the pumping losses would be tremendous at colder temperatures.
>>>>> The
>>>>> only time I've substituted ATF for a gear lube was on a transfer case
>>>>> where
>>>>> I knew the gear lube was used solely to have a common lube between the
>>>>> axles
>>>>> and t-case for service simplicity. Otherwise the two are not
>>>>> interchangeable, generally speaking. Again, from a gear perspective,
>>>>> ATF
>>>>> will have a much thinner oil film which means you will spend more time
>>>>> in
>>>>> the "boundary" or "mixed regime" regions instead of the hydrodynamic
>>>>> region....which translated means gears will wear faster. Modern
>>>>> transmissions are loaded with electronics/wires (as are many transfer
>>>>> cases
>>>>> and axles) which means the lubes must be obviously compatible. With a
>>>>> little online effort you can look up the certification (i.e. certified
>>>>> to
>>>>> SAE or ASTM standard....) on the lube at your local store and see if
>>>>> it
>>>>> meets your needs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster" <lks@...>
>>>>> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's"
>>>>> <omc-boats@...>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] OMC Type C lab testing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll let you do the math. OMC built electric-shift stern drives from
>>>>>> 1962 to 1977.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yours is most likely a 1964 - 1970. I would call tha ant "older,"
>>>>>> OMC
>>>>>> sterndrive in relative terms, for what that's worth?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not that familar with the properties of Dextron II or III having
>>>>>> never owned a GM product that uses it in an automatic transmission.
>>>>>> I've never seen a cross-reference to Dextron as a recommended OMC
>>>>>> Type
>>>>>> C
>>>>>> subsitute. But who knows? Maybe it has similar properties?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easy to use google to look up the properties of GM's Dextron II
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> III :
>>>>>> http://www.realhamradio.com/Pennzoil%20ATF%20MSDS.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does have a high dialetric property (35 kV), but I can't vouch for
>>>>>> the other parameters compared to the specs for "real" Type C or
>>>>>> "Premium"
>>>>>> Blend.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you wanna try and use it fine by me. If I was in your shoes, I'd
>>>>>> drain it ASAP and put the right stuff in there, regardless of cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Congrats! You've stumbled onto an interesting point, and again this
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> NOT a dumb question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Justin DeSantis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I always heard that the dielectric properties are what makes type C
>>>>>>> different. But I'll tell you where my concern came from. Today being
>>>>>>> Sunday, I couldn't go to the boat shop to get OMC Type C gear lube.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> had 3 tubes of Sierra brand type C, which I was comfortable with.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> the local hardware store had tubes of marine gear lube that was
>>>>>>> marked
>>>>>>> suitable for Type C applications. I was shocked they had it, so I
>>>>>>> grabbed a couple tubes, just in case. It was cheap too. I think it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> Citgo branded. Anyhow, while it says type C on the front, on the
>>>>>>> back,
>>>>>>> in smaller print it said something to the effect of "Not suitable
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> use in some older electric shift outdrives that require Dextron II
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> Dextron III fluid." So that gave me reason to pause. Why would it be
>>>>>>> Type C yet not be suitable for some electric shift models? Anyhow,
>>>>>>> that was the reason I asked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Lee Shuster<lks@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One other note I forgot to mention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My Dad, who introduced me to boating holds a Chem Eng degree for
>>>>>>>> Ohio
>>>>>>>> State.
>>>>>>>> He worked his entire career for Ashland Oil, the parent company of
>>>>>>>> Valvoline.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Back in the sixties, we owned an electric-shift J/E V4. My Dad was
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> curious about the "mysterious" OMC Type C lubrication requirement
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> had a
>>>>>>>> sample tested by the Valvoline engineering labs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They reported back (and I don't have their response) that their
>>>>>>>> testing
>>>>>>>> revealed some amazing qualities:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I remember in their report was:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) very high diaelectric (non-conductive) properties (that makes
>>>>>>>> sense) and
>>>>>>>> 2) excellent anti-corrosive properties.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can't recall if they ever "reverse engineered" and offered their
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> Type
>>>>>>>> C product, but they were extremely impressed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just buy the right stuff and be done with it, No biggie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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Received on Monday, 31 August 2009