Re: [OMC-Boats] oil leak....

On Sep 22, 2009, at 1:13 PM, Lee Shuster wrote:

> I'm not sure why? But don't aftermarket manifold suppliers provide
> both even and odd fire Buick V6 intake manifolds?
>
> No Even-Fire OMC-Buick-Jeep-Kaiser were ever sold, including the
> 1971-72 OMC that were still based on the odd-fire Buick 225. There
> were both even and odd fire versions of the 231. The 252's were all
> odd-fire. Only the 225 OF was converted to marine use.

ok - that confirms it - somebody put a car manifold on my boat engine
then. then modified it back to get the original marine rochester
carb to fit.

> (Later on OMC offered the 90-degree Chevy V6 in various versions.)
>
> I sent a link yesterday or Sunday from a place in Canada that listed
> all the various versions of Rochester 2-Jet's including various
> MARINE model numbers. I'm pretty certain you don't want an
> emissions-era carb on your application just because it might
> physically fit better.

i don't remember getting the list but thanks anyway. i spent time
talking to flying fish today about the whole situation and here's what
it came to - looks like a rochester DualJet would fit the bolt
pattern. but would have to be converted to marine. but then i
would still need to do some major mod'g to get the throttle linkage to
reach and operate smoothly. and worse, the DualJet has a D shaped
flange for the spark arrestor. Which means searching and hoping to
find a low profile new spark arrestor that will clear the cowling.
That is where I decided it would be better to stick with my stupid
adapter plate and send back my original carb to them to rebuild. It
went out UPS today. Atleast with that carb, if i ever switch my
manifold to the stock odd fire version, it should fit fine. Same
close bolt pattern. It kind of seemed that for 2 barrel marine
apps, Rochester just has a few choices and they all had the same bolt
pattern.

> How do you really know for certain that your old carb is an OMC
> marine supplied original?

photo at flying fish's site under Buick 155 match up to what mine
looks like. Also looks like the one in the OMC diagram. For some
reason I apparently have the only Rochester that doesn't have a part
number stamped on it. not hard to believe.
>
> If it were mine, I'd track down a used but serviceable 225 (odd-
> fire) intake manifold and get all the original OMC-style linkages
> and fuel fittings. I might opt for an electric choke, depending on
> the range of weather conditions I intend to operate the boat in.
> (Chokes don't really do much in 75 deg F weather.)

yeah - may go that route eventually, now that i learned i can get a
machine shop to put a 2nd port in. It's the obvious little things
like that that escape me. Now - in theory i'll have a brand new
carb in a couple weeks. woohoo. But it will be mounted using a
home fab adaptor plate. yuck. But as long as that plate doesn't
affect the performance at all, then I guess i can live with it.
If it's flat as a pancake and has a good fitting gasket on both
sides, it should be fine right?

>
> Lee
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: omc-boats-bounces@... [mailto:omc-boats-bounces@...
> ] On Behalf Of jd
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:25 AM
> To: bchowk@...; Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and
> 70's
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] oil leak....
>
> ahhhh - it's an even fire 252 V6 manifold - ok. Thanks for digging
> that up. Nevermind the carb fit issue, but it shouldn't affect
> anything else with the engine performace to have an even fire manifold
> on an odd fire engine should it? The water and air are still going
> to flow around in there regardless of which piston is firing in what
> order right?
>
>
> So my bigger question is did the even fire's end up in any OMC
> boats? Was it just for cars? What i'm getting at is if there was
> a marine version of the even fire, then maybe there's a marine
> version Rochester carb out there for it that will fit the bigger
> bolt pattern and allow me to get rid of all those stupid adapter
> plates and
> gaskets i have to have to make the odd fire RC2 carb fit. Unless it
> was getting me some big performance boost (which it's not) I hate
> having that jury rigged home made crap on my engine. Even though it
> worked. But I LIKE having that extra water temp port on this even
> fire manifold, i'm using that port, and I don't want to necessarily
> go back to the "correct" manifold and lose that port. So If flying
> fish for example had a 252 V6 RC2 carb maybe i'd be set with the
> best of both worlds.
>
> I have my existing carb all boxed up ready to send back for a re-
> build, but now that I know what I have and can talk to them further
> about it all - thanks!!
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 7:01 PM, BC Howk wrote:
>
>> I second Scotts offer, I would enjoy the chance to look at another
>> OMC
>> boat and compare notes...one of these days I think it would be cool
>> to
>> do a "cruise in" out on the Willamette
>>
>>
>> Glad you found your oil leak, I was concerned that you might have
>> damaged one of your gaskets looking for that rattling noise...
>>
>>
>> Your research confirmed my suspision, your manifold is for an EVEN
>> fire buick V6. The 225 ODD Fire is basically a V8 with 2 cylinders
>> lopped off as Buick decided to make something a little smoother
>> idling they changed the crank, cam and firing order, recycled
>> pistons from their current v8 production in 1973 an voila 231 even
>> fire,
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine
>> which settles another cuiosity I've had for a long time, an even
>> fire manifold DOES work on the 225, which makes me think the inverse
>> might be true......interesting.....You'r manifold will also go on
>> the 252 evenfire.
>>
>> Looks like you are getting this all settled out...glad to hear it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> B.C.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 21, 2009, Scott Veazie <scottveazie@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Jeff,
>>
>> Let me know if you need an extra set of eyeballs to look things
>> over..I've always found that someone to do a quick look over can
>> find something simple that I miss on my own..
>>
>>
>> ~Scott
>>
>>> From: jdood@...
>>> To: omc-boats@...
>>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:45:07 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] oil leak....
>>>
>>> well actually here's the latest from my oil leak saga (had this all
>>> typed up but i think it didn't send - sorry if duplicate):
>>>
>>> bought 5 qts and poured the first qt into my nice clean engine.
>>> Literally as I'm pouring it in, its coming back out somewhere and
>>> going into my nice clean bilge! And where was it coming from? The
>>> lower edge of the port side valve cover, going behind the metal
>>> exhaust manifold gasket, against the black engine backround, and
>>> down to the bilge. The reason? In the spirit of getting things
>>> stock OMC where possible, I used some extra stock OMC nuts with the
>>> oblong washers attached instead of the regular nuts someone had on
>>> there previous. Thought it would seal better with those washers
>>> too. They felt fine tightening down - didn't notice anything
>>> weird. Yet what I felt was tight was actually leaving a nice gap
>>> hiding under the lower side, enough to let 4 qts out. As best as I
>>> can figure I guess someone must have stripped and re-tapped those
>>> holes at some point because the threads are just slightly different
>>> than original. I put the regular nuts back in and they went in
>>> slightly deeper and sealed everything right up. Jeez! Almost a
>>> disaster. I hate the fact that I was driving around awhile with
>>> barely any oil. Nothing seized that day though. And although
>>> I've never been through it, my understanding is that is pretty much
>>> the main symptom of extremely low oil - engine seizure. So i'm
>>> hoping because that didn't happen, I'm still ok. Not sure why it
>>> had to get all the way down to practically zero before the light
>> came
>>> on.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on that day, something else was happening on occasion -
>>> something i think was happening to someone else on the list in the
>>> past few days. I would be accelerating, get to about 1/2 plane,
>>> and all power would just drop to zero. Much like your foot slipping
>>> off the gas pedal by accident in a car or something. Engine didn't
>>> stall, just went back to idle - still in gear. So after getting
>>> the oil leak solved and everything filled back up yesterday - i went
>>> for a little test run. Now that occasional problem is happening
>>> consistently. Got up on plane a couple times, but generally, it
>>> would do it. Just all the sudden no gas or acceleration. I
>>> really hope (and don't' think) it has anything to do with the oil
>>> situation. I think it's some new independent prob - coincidentally
>>> coming up now just to confuse me. It almost seemed electrical -
>>> although the engine almost always kept running after dropping down.
>>>
>>> So I limped back to dock and am pretty much gonna call it a season.
>>> In the coming weeks I;m going to get a new carb on there, replace my
>>> throttle switch with one of those new ones being made, then give it
>>> another test. Hopefully before it gets too cold.
>>>
>>> Jeff D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 21, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Justin DeSantis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure how helpful it would be in this application, but
>> there's a
>>>> method for finding leaks on motorcycles I've used for years.
>> Taught to
>>>> me by a crusty old timer. Get the area of the oil leak good and
>> clean.
>>>> Use degreaser and remove all the oil. Not get yourself some
>> athletes
>>>> foot spray. It sprays as an aerosol and drys as a white powder.
>> spray
>>>> it on all the seams that may be leaking. When the oil leaks
>> through
>>>> again, it wets the powder and turns it black in the area of the
>> leak.
>>>> Makes it easy to spot.
>>>>
>>>> I tried everything once to locate the leak on a brand new Harley
>>>> Sportster. Found it with the spray. It was leaking right through
>> the
>>>> engine case. Bad casting from the factory.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:25 AM, BC Howk <bchowk@...>
>> wrote:
>>>>> A few places
>>>>>
>>>>> -Head gasket
>>>>> -timing cover
>>>>> -rear main seal
>>>>>
>>>>> Check with your auto parts store but I believe they have oil
>>>>> additive that
>>>>> is flourescent (glows real bright under a black light) they make
>>>>> the stuff
>>>>> for just this occurance (need to track the source of an oil leak.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> B.C.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2009, jd <jdood@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Setting aside my carb fit issue, today's to do list has one thing
>>>>> on it - figuring out how about 4 qts of oil ended up in my bilge
>>>>> during my last outing! Everything seemed to be going well. Had
>>>>> done a 20 min test earlier that day - no probs. Took it out for a
>>>>> real run with the GF later that day. At one point the oil light
>>>>> started coming on - turned off immediately and poked around
>> back at
>>>>> the engine. Oil all over the bilge area. But nothing obvious. A
>>>>> small drip from one spot on the valve cover gasket - but really
>>>>> small. It looked like just enough on the dipstick to get back
>> with
>>>>> so that's what we did later.
>>>>>
>>>>> So now a week later the engine and bilge are all cleaned up (2 hr
>>>>> messy job). And Im heading off to buy 4-5 qts of oil and go for a
>>>>> little test run and see what I can see. I don't get how that
>>>>> much oil could come out of the engine and it not be an obvious
>>>>> thing. So hopefully with the cowling off I will be able to spot
>>>>> it. Jeez - another close call - almost fried my engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> So here's my question - just to see if I'm missing something. The
>>>>> only places oil could be "leaking" out on the engine would be
>>>>>
>>>>> - valve covers
>>>>> - oil pan
>>>>> - dipstick tube and / or fill tube where it connects to the block
>>>>> - seal around base of distributor
>>>>>
>>>>> right? am i forgetting somewhere?
>>>>>
>>>>> Note to self: A black engine and a black bilge make it very
>>>>> difficult to spot oil leaks on a bright sunny day. Hoping to be
>>>>> able to paint my engine a lighter color this winter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff D
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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Received on Wednesday, 23 September 2009