Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness

from my tank the fuel goes to a clear plastic inline filter thing,
then a couple feet on to the fuel water separator, then to the
carb. the blob of water sorta makes sense. so i guess it the water
blob would mix with the air vapor and a mixture of ONLY air and water
(zero gas) would shoot equally into all 6 cylinders and potentially
kill the whole engine instantly. still seems like it would have
to be a big blob of water - like maybe a teaspoon or something - to do
that though. but like you say, anything is possible.

On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:28 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:

> Water in fuel is kinda like an oil & vinegar salad dressing -- you
> can shake it all you want, but it doesn't mix well and it doesn't
> stay mixed for long. It is possible to get a sudden "blob" of water
> that can suddenly kill the engine and that could be why it takes
> awhile to restart. It wouldn't be the first suspect on my list
> either, but anything is possible! Do you have the glass bowl on
> your fuel pump? That'd be one easy check you can make, but as
> stressed by others, meticulous attention to detail is the only way
> to nail down a problem like this.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> >
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:41:15 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2009, at 5:48 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
>
> > I once had a crack in the rotor that would cause it to lose contact
> > at different speed ranges so it can be almost anything. Sometimes
> > failures can be induced by vibration, sometimes by heat, sometimes
> > both or something completely different. As metal things like coils
> > and wires expand and contract as they heat and cool, it can cause
> > them to make intermittent contact that can be maddening to
> > diagnose. Fuel could very well be a possibility too, things would
> > indeed stop quick if you suddenly injected an air/water mix instead
> > of an air/fuel mix.
>
> ok so this is something i've wondered about........still learning how
> engines actually work i guess..........if you have some water in your
> line somehow and it makes it's way to the carb bowl, isn't it going
> to get diluted a bit by the fuel already in the bowl? And once past
> that point, wouldn't it go into one of the 6 cylinders OR if all 6
> equally, isn't it further dilluted at that point being spread out
> among 6 places? And if that's all true, then it seems the engine
> would just cough a bit, then pick right back up a second later when
> it got fed clean gas again? Seems like it would take a lot of
> water in the line to completely and suddenly kill the engine, but im
> not sure how it all works.
>
>
>
> > Best way to check that would probably be connecting to a remote
> > tank, but remember you'll still need to purge everything in the
> > lines and bowl. It helps a lot that it starts back up for you.
> > Good luck!
>
> yeah, i'm glad about that too. although, it does take a while to
> get it started again. not the greatest feeling when you are out on
> the columbia alone in 50 degree weather and there aren't any other
> boats around.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Veazie" <scottveazie@...>
> > To: omc-boats@...
> > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:05:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> > Eastern
> > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> >
> > Yup...no spark for the plugs. Also don't discount a bad condenser,
> > I had one leave me stranded.
> >
> > > From: jdood@...
> > > To: omc-boats@...
> > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:45:06 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > >
> > > yeah, maybe the coil - hope its something that easy. i guess that
> > > would do it wouldn't it? if i understand it all correctly, if the
> > > coil shuts down then no spark is being send to ANY of the plugs,
> > > right? which would make the engine completely die instantly.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Scott Veazie wrote:
> > >
> > > > JD-
> > > >
> > > > >From my past experience, I would start with a new coil, then
> get
> > > > new points, condenser, cap, rotor, check all spark plugs and
> > wires.
> > > > Get all that ignition nonsense eliminated as a potential
> problem,
> > > > and then go from there. You probably won't have to replace your
> > > > dist. cap though.
> > > >
> > > > ~Scott
> > > >
> > > > > From: jdood@...
> > > > > To: omc-boats@...
> > > > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:00:31 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > i just don't see how it can be any kind of electrical system
> > thing,
> > > > > esp since i re-did most of the wiring this summer and it's now
> > very
> > > > > solid. but who knows. and what "electrical" stuff is happening
> > > > > with the engine while its running anyway?
> > > > >
> > > > > - one wire sends power to the starter when the key is turned -
> > > > that is
> > > > > working fine
> > > > >
> > > > > - there's a purple wire that runs to the electric choke (i
> > guess) on
> > > > > the carb - perhaps that?
> > > > >
> > > > > - there's theres a wire going to the coil and stuff - perhaps
> > that?
> > > > >
> > > > > - then there's the alternator - perhaps that?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The last 3 on this list i don't really understand at all, esp
> > what
> > > > > their function is AFTER the engine is up and running. If
> > > > > electrical, it has to be something that functions not just to
> > start
> > > > > the engine, but to keep the engine running. Doesn't that just
> > > > > narrow it down to the alternator? Or is there other electrical
> > stuff
> > > > > that has to do with the engine staying running?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 9:02 AM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I tend to agree with the electrical suspect. Fuel/air
> problems
> > > > > > generally linger a bit and don't result in an immediate
> drop-
> > out
> > > > > > like you describe. Anything is possible though. I like the
> > > > > > guidance Lee sent out awhile back where he said to
> > eleiminate the
> > > > > > possibility of electrical problems first since that's
> usually
> > > > > > quicker and easier to do. Trouble is, intermittent
> electrical
> > > > > > problems can be a nightmare to trace. Is there any
> > possibility of
> > > > > > hooking up some basic instrumentation to see if there is any
> > > > > > electrical effect when it happens? If you see a sudden
> voltage
> > > > > > change or current drop out, that would be a clear indicator.
> > Good
> > > > > > luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andy
> > > > > > '67 Reveler
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> > > > > > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:44:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/
> > Canada
> > > > > > Eastern
> > > > > > Subject: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > > > >
> > > > > > took my boat out for the last of possible testing this
> season
> > > > before
> > > > > > things get too cold and rainy. didn't go as i hoped. i'll
> > > > > > try and condense this down to it's simplest form:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BEFORE (about a month ago):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > except for some slightly fast idling, engine ran well.
> Then I
> > > > > > noticed it starting to do this weird intermittent thing
> where
> > > > all the
> > > > > > power (throttle) would just drop down to zero. It seemed to
> > happen
> > > > > > mainly during acceleration up to plane. This all was
> > happening at
> > > > > > the end of the season, so I have pretty much had the boat
> > > > sitting for
> > > > > > the past month waiting for parts and time. But I was
> > thinking it
> > > > was
> > > > > > related to my falling apart carb and / or and electrical
> thing
> > > > > > related to my rebuilt shifter switch. so......
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AFTER (yesterday):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - I installed my nice practically new carb (rebuilt by
> flying
> > > > fish).
> > > > > > keep in mind, it was the exact same carb i have always had
> > on the
> > > > > > boat, just completely rebuilt. I also changed my air water
> > > > separator
> > > > > > cartridge beforehand to avoid any chance of issues from fuel
> > > > that had
> > > > > > sat for a month.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - I installed a NOS shifter switch that I recently acquired.
> > > > Tested
> > > > > > with light after install, everything checked out. And as I
> > said,
> > > > > > it's basically new.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So after those two major upgrades, the engine is doing the
> > same
> > > > dang
> > > > > > thing. Started up, let it warm up a bit, took it for a spin.
> > > > > > About 5-10 seconds after getting up on that first plane
> > everything
> > > > > > just dropped down to zero and unlike the past times, this
> > time the
> > > > > > engine died at the same time. Had to crank it over several
> > times
> > > > > > for it to start back up, and when it did, with the red lever
> > set
> > > > at
> > > > > > full throttle it took several seconds for the RPMS to climb
> > up to
> > > > > > where they should be. I limped back to the dock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then while at the dock idling for a few minutes, all of the
> > sudden
> > > > > > it just died again. At idle this time, not while
> accelerating.
> > > > > > And every time it dies it is quick. It's not like it sits
> > there
> > > > and
> > > > > > slowly dies. It just cuts out suddenly. So I of course tried
> > to
> > > > > > restart it. Nothing for several tries, then it acted like it
> > was
> > > > > > going to start, then it finally starts, coughing and
> > sputtering a
> > > > > > bit, then very slowly climbs up to full throttle (in
> neutral).
> > > > > > I started thinking maybe a fuel pump issue. Disconnected
> fuel
> > > > > > line, cranked engine, plenty of pumping of fuel happening.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems sort of electrical in the way it just all of the
> > sudden
> > > > dies
> > > > > > either at idle or accelerating. Yet when it finally starts
> > back
> > > > up it
> > > > > > coughs and sputters and smokes a bit. Which sounds like bad
> > fuel,
> > > > > > yet I have a new water/fuel separator cartridge, the carb is
> > new,
> > > > > > and nothing looks dirty with the inline regular fuel filter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any ideas?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Received on Saturday, 31 October 2009