Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness

what is it, where is it, and how do i do it?

On Nov 1, 2009, at 7:04 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:

> Good news to hear its working. If you haven't already plumbed the
> vent on your fuel pump to the carb, I highly recommend you do so.
> Without it, the pump dumps fuel right into the bildge if the
> diaphram ruptures. Unfortunately I know this from experience, but
> we were very, very lucky no one got hurt and the boat suffered only
> minor damage. Please, everyone, don't take the risk.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> >
> Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2009 1:39:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
>
> nope, got the stock mechanical FP that's bolted on the side of the
> engine. which seems to be having no probs since it squirted fuel
> with the same force and my bilge pump when i disconnected and tested
> it.
>
>
>
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 9:16 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
>
> > Do you have an electric or mechanical fuel pump? What you describes
> > sounds like an electric. If so, disconnect the fuel line ahead of
> > the fuel/water separator and pump some into a glass jar. Do it a
> > couple of times and it will be obvious if you have any water in the
> > tank. Doesn't comepletely eliminate the possiblility, but knocks
> > once more thing off the list. The fact you have a fue/water
> > separator makes it even more unlikely this is your problem, but its
> > still possible. My system runs from the tank to the fuel/water
> > separator/filter to the mechanical pump mounted on the lower port
> > side to the carb. I replaced my pump a few years ago, but I kept
> > the glass bowl and "bundt cake" filter since it provides a
> > convenient sight glass into the fuel system.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> > >
> > Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 4:02:41 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> > Eastern
> > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> >
> > from my tank the fuel goes to a clear plastic inline filter thing,
> > then a couple feet on to the fuel water separator, then to the
> > carb. the blob of water sorta makes sense. so i guess it the
> water
> > blob would mix with the air vapor and a mixture of ONLY air and
> water
> > (zero gas) would shoot equally into all 6 cylinders and potentially
> > kill the whole engine instantly. still seems like it would have
> > to be a big blob of water - like maybe a teaspoon or something -
> to do
> > that though. but like you say, anything is possible.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:28 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
> >
> > > Water in fuel is kinda like an oil & vinegar salad dressing -- you
> > > can shake it all you want, but it doesn't mix well and it doesn't
> > > stay mixed for long. It is possible to get a sudden "blob" of
> water
> > > that can suddenly kill the engine and that could be why it takes
> > > awhile to restart. It wouldn't be the first suspect on my list
> > > either, but anything is possible! Do you have the glass bowl on
> > > your fuel pump? That'd be one easy check you can make, but as
> > > stressed by others, meticulous attention to detail is the only way
> > > to nail down a problem like this.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> > > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> > > >
> > > Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 1:41:15 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> > Eastern
> > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > >
> > >
> > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 5:48 PM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
> > >
> > > > I once had a crack in the rotor that would cause it to lose
> > contact
> > > > at different speed ranges so it can be almost anything.
> Sometimes
> > > > failures can be induced by vibration, sometimes by heat,
> sometimes
> > > > both or something completely different. As metal things like
> > coils
> > > > and wires expand and contract as they heat and cool, it can
> cause
> > > > them to make intermittent contact that can be maddening to
> > > > diagnose. Fuel could very well be a possibility too, things
> would
> > > > indeed stop quick if you suddenly injected an air/water mix
> > instead
> > > > of an air/fuel mix.
> > >
> > > ok so this is something i've wondered about........still learning
> > how
> > > engines actually work i guess..........if you have some water in
> > your
> > > line somehow and it makes it's way to the carb bowl, isn't it
> going
> > > to get diluted a bit by the fuel already in the bowl? And once
> past
> > > that point, wouldn't it go into one of the 6 cylinders OR if
> all 6
> > > equally, isn't it further dilluted at that point being spread out
> > > among 6 places? And if that's all true, then it seems the
> engine
> > > would just cough a bit, then pick right back up a second later
> when
> > > it got fed clean gas again? Seems like it would take a lot of
> > > water in the line to completely and suddenly kill the engine, but
> > im
> > > not sure how it all works.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Best way to check that would probably be connecting to a remote
> > > > tank, but remember you'll still need to purge everything in the
> > > > lines and bowl. It helps a lot that it starts back up for you.
> > > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > yeah, i'm glad about that too. although, it does take a while
> > to
> > > get it started again. not the greatest feeling when you are
> > out on
> > > the columbia alone in 50 degree weather and there aren't any other
> > > boats around.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Scott Veazie" <scottveazie@...>
> > > > To: omc-boats@...
> > > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:05:40 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> > > > Eastern
> > > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > >
> > > > Yup...no spark for the plugs. Also don't discount a bad
> > condenser,
> > > > I had one leave me stranded.
> > > >
> > > > > From: jdood@...
> > > > > To: omc-boats@...
> > > > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:45:06 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > > >
> > > > > yeah, maybe the coil - hope its something that easy. i guess
> > that
> > > > > would do it wouldn't it? if i understand it all correctly, if
> > the
> > > > > coil shuts down then no spark is being send to ANY of the
> plugs,
> > > > > right? which would make the engine completely die instantly.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 10:41 AM, Scott Veazie wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > JD-
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From my past experience, I would start with a new coil,
> then
> > > get
> > > > > > new points, condenser, cap, rotor, check all spark plugs and
> > > > wires.
> > > > > > Get all that ignition nonsense eliminated as a potential
> > > problem,
> > > > > > and then go from there. You probably won't have to replace
> > your
> > > > > > dist. cap though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~Scott
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: jdood@...
> > > > > > > To: omc-boats@...
> > > > > > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:00:31 -0700
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i just don't see how it can be any kind of electrical
> system
> > > > thing,
> > > > > > > esp since i re-did most of the wiring this summer and it's
> > now
> > > > very
> > > > > > > solid. but who knows. and what "electrical" stuff is
> > happening
> > > > > > > with the engine while its running anyway?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - one wire sends power to the starter when the key is
> > turned -
> > > > > > that is
> > > > > > > working fine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - there's a purple wire that runs to the electric choke (i
> > > > guess) on
> > > > > > > the carb - perhaps that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - there's theres a wire going to the coil and stuff -
> > perhaps
> > > > that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - then there's the alternator - perhaps that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The last 3 on this list i don't really understand at all,
> > esp
> > > > what
> > > > > > > their function is AFTER the engine is up and running. If
> > > > > > > electrical, it has to be something that functions not just
> > to
> > > > start
> > > > > > > the engine, but to keep the engine running. Doesn't that
> > just
> > > > > > > narrow it down to the alternator? Or is there other
> > electrical
> > > > stuff
> > > > > > > that has to do with the engine staying running?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Oct 29, 2009, at 9:02 AM, ANDY PERAKES wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I tend to agree with the electrical suspect. Fuel/air
> > > problems
> > > > > > > > generally linger a bit and don't result in an immediate
> > > drop-
> > > > out
> > > > > > > > like you describe. Anything is possible though. I like
> the
> > > > > > > > guidance Lee sent out awhile back where he said to
> > > > eleiminate the
> > > > > > > > possibility of electrical problems first since that's
> > > usually
> > > > > > > > quicker and easier to do. Trouble is, intermittent
> > > electrical
> > > > > > > > problems can be a nightmare to trace. Is there any
> > > > possibility of
> > > > > > > > hooking up some basic instrumentation to see if there is
> > any
> > > > > > > > electrical effect when it happens? If you see a sudden
> > > voltage
> > > > > > > > change or current drop out, that would be a clear
> > indicator.
> > > > Good
> > > > > > > > luck!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Andy
> > > > > > > > '67 Reveler
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "jd" <jdood@...>
> > > > > > > > To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:44:16 AM GMT -05:00
> > US/
> > > > Canada
> > > > > > > > Eastern
> > > > > > > > Subject: [OMC-Boats] engine wierdness
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > took my boat out for the last of possible testing this
> > > season
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > > > things get too cold and rainy. didn't go as i hoped.
> i'll
> > > > > > > > try and condense this down to it's simplest form:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > BEFORE (about a month ago):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > except for some slightly fast idling, engine ran well.
> > > Then I
> > > > > > > > noticed it starting to do this weird intermittent thing
> > > where
> > > > > > all the
> > > > > > > > power (throttle) would just drop down to zero. It seemed
> > to
> > > > happen
> > > > > > > > mainly during acceleration up to plane. This all was
> > > > happening at
> > > > > > > > the end of the season, so I have pretty much had the
> boat
> > > > > > sitting for
> > > > > > > > the past month waiting for parts and time. But I was
> > > > thinking it
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > related to my falling apart carb and / or and electrical
> > > thing
> > > > > > > > related to my rebuilt shifter switch. so......
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > AFTER (yesterday):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - I installed my nice practically new carb (rebuilt by
> > > flying
> > > > > > fish).
> > > > > > > > keep in mind, it was the exact same carb i have always
> had
> > > > on the
> > > > > > > > boat, just completely rebuilt. I also changed my air
> water
> > > > > > separator
> > > > > > > > cartridge beforehand to avoid any chance of issues from
> > fuel
> > > > > > that had
> > > > > > > > sat for a month.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - I installed a NOS shifter switch that I recently
> > acquired.
> > > > > > Tested
> > > > > > > > with light after install, everything checked out. And
> as I
> > > > said,
> > > > > > > > it's basically new.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So after those two major upgrades, the engine is doing
> the
> > > > same
> > > > > > dang
> > > > > > > > thing. Started up, let it warm up a bit, took it for a
> > spin.
> > > > > > > > About 5-10 seconds after getting up on that first plane
> > > > everything
> > > > > > > > just dropped down to zero and unlike the past times,
> this
> > > > time the
> > > > > > > > engine died at the same time. Had to crank it over
> several
> > > > times
> > > > > > > > for it to start back up, and when it did, with the red
> > lever
> > > > set
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > full throttle it took several seconds for the RPMS to
> > climb
> > > > up to
> > > > > > > > where they should be. I limped back to the dock.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Then while at the dock idling for a few minutes, all of
> > the
> > > > sudden
> > > > > > > > it just died again. At idle this time, not while
> > > accelerating.
> > > > > > > > And every time it dies it is quick. It's not like it
> sits
> > > > there
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > slowly dies. It just cuts out suddenly. So I of course
> > tried
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > restart it. Nothing for several tries, then it acted
> > like it
> > > > was
> > > > > > > > going to start, then it finally starts, coughing and
> > > > sputtering a
> > > > > > > > bit, then very slowly climbs up to full throttle (in
> > > neutral).
> > > > > > > > I started thinking maybe a fuel pump issue. Disconnected
> > > fuel
> > > > > > > > line, cranked engine, plenty of pumping of fuel
> happening.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It seems sort of electrical in the way it just all of
> the
> > > > sudden
> > > > > > dies
> > > > > > > > either at idle or accelerating. Yet when it finally
> starts
> > > > back
> > > > > > up it
> > > > > > > > coughs and sputters and smokes a bit. Which sounds like
> > bad
> > > > fuel,
> > > > > > > > yet I have a new water/fuel separator cartridge, the
> > carb is
> > > > new,
> > > > > > > > and nothing looks dirty with the inline regular fuel
> > filter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any ideas?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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Received on Sunday, 1 November 2009