One thing I need to add to this discussion: Just because you have a guage with a needle it does not necessarily mean you have a true analog gauge with a continuous reading -- it may very well be nothing more than a fancy idiot light. Sometime about the mid-90s, I was shocked to learn the temperature guage on my car migrated from being an full-scale analog meter to a 3-position indicator with the needle showing cold, normal, or hot and nothing more . A ny apparent movements in-between are completely meaningless -- it is not a guage, but an indicator. This was done for cost reduction and warrantly improvement (less sensitive to calibration variation ) and miffs me in a big way because I can no longer tell when things are starting to heat up, only that they are okay or too hot. I'm not saying all guages are like this (from my small sampling, " work trucks" still use full scale guages while cars use indicators that look like guages), just that some are and often its impossible to tell them apart just by looking. The connection to boats is you need to be careful of what you install as well as when towing. So much for the "If it looks like a duck argument. "
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" <lib1@...>
To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" <omc-boats@...mate.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:45:03 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
Ron,
All the wiring diagrams I've ever looked at for all OMC/Johnson/Evinrude boats show separate, individual bulbs for both HOT and OIL senders. It very well could be on later (67-up) models these bulbs are physically housed behind a common lens on the helm? Some models may use combinations of gauges and idiot lights, so I'll assume you have no gauges and only lights.
The temperature switch/sender should CLOSE, providing a ground to the light right around 195 - 205 deg F. (Normal operating temps are 140 to 170 deg F) The common OMC part no is 379756 for the temp sender switch. These are equipped with 1/4 blade terminals. What indications beside the light to use observe the HOT condition? DO you know how to check the TELL-TALE water-stream indicator on the STARBOARD sterndrive pivot point?
If you use a temperature GAUGE rather than the idiot light, use OMC part no 171960. These measure about 450 ohms at 100 deg F and drop to 130 ohms at 160 deg F. These are equipped with a threaded terminal with hex nut and require a ring terminal. You can replace the idiot light sender and install a much more informative gauge . But you need to use the appropriate sending unit.
The wiring is common to either type, so no wiring changes are required except for the forementioned terminal. The temp senders are usually located on top of intake manifolds near the thermostat housing.
I seriously doubt you have an oil pressure issue (assuming you HAVE checked the dip stick for proper oil level). You can also change out the switch type sending unit for a oil pressure gauge. The oil pressure gauge sending units are physically larger and most like WILL require a threaded pipe fitting adaptor to provide required physical clearance.
I've done both water temperature and oil pressure gauges on my boat and find the water temperature gauge far more informative over a variety of conditions. Lights are either ON or OFF, where gauges obviously have the advantage of providing a range of information.
Oil pump? Extremely doubtful. But very easy to check: Disconnect the wiring lead from the oil switch sender. Connect an ohmmeter between sender terminal and good ground. Turn on ignition switch. Observe ohmmeter, which should indicate a closed circuit (simulating a OIL LIGHT ON condition). START engine, observe ohmmeter indication m OPEN CIRCUIT (simulating an OIL LIGHT OFF condition.) If meter doesn't immediately indicate an open circuit after starting engine and increasing idle to 2000 RPM, shutdown engine and replace sender switch. If new switch, doesn't open circuit while engine is running, check lubrication system (oil pump) or check for excessive main bearing wear.
I'd bet on cooling first.
Good luck.
Lee
On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:19 PM, Andy Perakes wrote:
I don't have any materials with me, but I could've sworn the idiot lights were for oil pressure and water temperature. I seem to recall one light says "Oil" and the other "Hot," but you could have different instrumentation. Anyhow, the one and only time my "Hot" light came on, it was a bad water pump.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Mathewson
To: omc-boats@...
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: [OMC-Boats] &0 Seasport Overheat issues
All interested,
I got all the tilt issues work out, brand new battery and set out for another sea trial. Starts easy, idles smooth but was not accelerating very well and I attribute that to old gas and sitting for so long. After 10 or so minutes of putting along @... RPM I get the red "Hot Oil " warning lot on. If I slow it down it will turn off. I'm still getting a tattle tale stream from the outdrive and no other issues I can see. First question: Is that Hot Oil light a pressure or temp switch and where is it collecting the data from? I ran it a little longer after the light came on and it got real hot, but I have no way of know HOW Hot. I shut it down and had my friend tow me back in. Good news, it re starts so it's not broke inside. Oil pump?
Any words of advice will be helpful.
Ron Mathewson
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
2. Re: OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches (jd)
3. Re: 1964 Sweet 16 (...and another) (jd)
4. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (jd)
5. Re: adjust screw on top of shifter? (Lee Shuster (lib1))
-----Inline Message Follows-----
JD,
The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
Does that make sense?
BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
Lee
On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>
> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>
> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>
> jeff d
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
OMG! I think entire shifters come up on ebay for way less!
For those who care - my glue job held to reassemble switch, lubed the hell out of it, but as soon as I moved the little lever back and forth to test it broke again. Shouldn't have happened. But the fit with those little plastic pieces is so tight, i think that is what caused it to break in the first place. Too tight to rotate. Maybe old plastic shrunk a little or something? Anyway, installed my 1 yr older metal back up switch and everything seems to work fine. Haven't tested F/R at dock yet, but should be fine. That metal switch is nice and smooth, feels solid. No neutral safety feature, but oh well - just have to be careful and not start in gear. So this websites "new" switches for $195 look like they are entirely plastic. Not even the arm is metal. I would be wary.
On Aug 14, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Lee K. Shuster (lks) wrote:
> New Replacement Switch for "only" $195.79
> http://www.sterndrive.info/electric_shift_replacement_switch.html
>
> Maybe Phil could add this link to the website?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Shuster (lib1)" < lib1@...m >
> To: "Evinrude & Johnson Boats of the 1960's and 70's" < omc-boats@...ltimate.com >
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:07 AM
> Subject: [OMC-Boats] OMC/Johnson and Evinrude Shifter switches
>
>
>> Jeff D,
>>
>> Yes the black knob is a throttle friction adjustment.
>>
>> But the switch you mention is worth alerting all OMC electric shift owners about:
>>
>> There are four different switches used on OMC boats. The dividing line was 1969. Two for E-rudes, two for Johnson/OMC's.
>>
>> Both Evinrude (push-button) and Johnson/OMC (single lever) and third party (like Morse) introduced the 5-wire Neutral-only starter interlock circuit, for 1969, most likely as a result of liability concerns, but I don't know for sure. (If you remember, a lot of federal safety legislation was mandated in 1968 on the automotive industry, as a result of Ralph Nader's book, "Unsafe at Any Speed."
>>
>> Prior to 1969 all remote control shift swicthes used only 3-wires and did not have the safety interlock. E-rude pushbuttons all have a mechanical sliding "aperature" that prevents operating the shifter buttons beyond a partial throttle setting.
>> If this ever slips out of place, and prevents you from shifting (being stuck in neutral, at your favorite fishing hole, 5 miles off shore is not FUN!) simply carry your hand Phillips-head and pop off the cover surround the push buttons. This will allow you do move the slider back into place and allow you to now engage forward or reverse.
>>
>> In my opinion, the Evinrude design, while perhaps less ergonomic (it takes two hands to simultaneously move the throttle and shift, as in docking) is a more robust design, and the switch assembly rarely fails. Johnson owners aren't as lucky.
>>
>> The Johnson/OMC switches are a weak point and often fail. In fact, I've come across a couple of sources for present-day, aftermarket sources. A gentleman, in Portland, OR is rebuilding these switches and a Canadian source has claimed it has ramped up production of new switches. (I have no direct experience with either and I'll leave it to others on this list to track them down and have Phil add it to his website.)
>>
>> Bottomline is these switches are like gold. In either style, 5 or 3- wire they are extremely hard to come by. Supply and demand dictates market prices. Anyone who owns a Johnson should start looking for a spare today! You should locate the current third-party sources. Just buying a used control off eBay, won't insure you are getting a useable switch. About half of them are defective, or will soon fail.
>>
>> I've also got a little tip for 69-70 Johnson 5-wire owners. I find that once in awhile my 5-wire, will only "reset" properly if I "back" the throttle into REVERSE after shutting down the engine in NEUTRAL. I call this my built-in, anti-theft device, like having to know the secret key-code combination. Only problem with this little quirk, is you don't want a big barge bearing down on you when your forget the code!
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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-----Inline Message Follows-----
.....and another one in Oregon......
I drove by it, saw from a distance, have no idea of condition. It's in a used boat parts store yard with a bunch of other boats. yard is located at about 220th and Sandy Blvd in Fairview (basically Portland). I have no idea how rare those boats are but maybe it's a good find too. I actually drive by that spot all the time and would be more than happy to snap a few photos and post for any non-portland peeps interested on the list. Lemme know. Jeff D
On Aug 15, 2009, at 6:34 AM, Ted Robinson wrote:
> Hi all,
> There is a 1964 Sweet 16 advertised locally for $400.00.
> Anyone want me to look at it for them?
>
> Ted Robinson 1970 SeaSport
> Terrebonne, Oregon
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
oh jeez. ok this is weird.
-I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
- unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
- now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
> JD,
>
> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>
> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>
> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>
> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>
> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>
>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>
>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>
>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>
>> jeff d
>> _______________________________________________
>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>> OMC-Boats@...
>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OMC-Boats mailing list
> OMC-Boats@...
> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
-----Inline Message Follows-----
Yup, I didn't realize it tell I read it with my own eyes. It's just another example of why it pays to RTFM. I cross-referenced and the Seloc manual mentions it as well, but in a slightly more confusing manor than the factory OMC manual.
And OBTW, the 1969 OMC/Evinrude/Johnson manual doesn't mention the 5-wire units. But 1970 and newer does.
Remember this applies to only the 5-wire Johnson & OMC controls. E-rude PUSH-BUTTON owners can ignore. Your "LOCK-OUT" failure typically allows you to start the engine, you just can't shift. (Covered in a prior posting.)
My ski lessons got rained out today at Jordanelle Reservoir, near Park City. 46 F and 3-ft white caps at 08:15 AM. Never got of the trailer. Oh, well.
Lee
On Aug 15, 2009, at 12:04 PM, jd wrote:
> oh jeez. ok this is weird.
>
> -I've looked at that screw and associated parts in both the housings i have and it just seems to be connected to nothing. Hard to understand conceptually how the things does ANYTHING, but i believe you.
>
> - unless im missing something, this particular adjustment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. i'm confused. When would you ever need an adjustment that controls hot/cold starts and the position of the "gas" lever? That seems like putting an adjustment on a cars gas peddle to control whether or not you give it gas when you start it. Why?
>
> - now i am wondering if i really screwed things up and perhaps played around with that screw and that's what caused that plastic disk piece in the switch to break? I easily could have, but don't remember at what point i actually started messing with the screw. All i know is it was sort of behaving wierd. Sometimes cranking, sometimes not. And moving the red lever may have made a difference in there somewhere cause i'm sure out there on the water i was in a slight panic moving stuff back and forth. But I DIDN'T mess with the screw out on the water. Then at some point got it to crank again. Perhaps the red lever position? Then back at dock assumed i had some electrical thing happening with the switch. I think that's probably the point where I fiddled with the screw - mainly out of curiousity (as in "hmmm what's this do?")- while disassembling and testing the switch. The whole things seems weird and I'm still not really understanding that screw. But maybe i tightened it too much or something trying to see what it did, played with the throttle lever, and broke my switch? Really doubtful - i'm pretty careful. But it seemed to be doing nothing when i turned the screw. The shift lever moved the same, the red lever moved the same. Who knows.
>
> Nice to know that screw adjustment can completely disable your boat though. If a boat is not starting, that is probably the last thing anyone would check!
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Lee Shuster (lib1) wrote:
>
>> JD,
>>
>> The question you had on your JOHNSON/OMC single-lever remote control:
>>
>> I had an opportunity to grab a OMC factory manual from 1969-1970. The screw (recessed and on top?) is used to adjust the interaction of the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever with the N/S (neutral-safety) cutout.
>>
>> In other words, it is possible to (mis) adjust this so that one could never start, even a warm boat with the main THROTTLE lever in NEUTRAL, without first advancing or partially advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>>
>> Does that make sense?
>>
>> BTW mine is adjusted, so that I can always do a hot start in NEUTRAL without advancing the FAST-IDLE/(START) lever.
>>
>> If yours was mis-adjusted it might explain why you were encountering a locked-out staring condition.
>>
>> Did you see the link I posted to the $200 new replacement switch?
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 11:05 PM, jd wrote:
>>
>>> hi, so for whoever is keeping track, got my boat out today for first time after weeks. temp prob was previous dilema, rewired about 75% as result. Ran around about about full speed for about 20 mins and temp stayed right at 160!! So yes, as I HOPED, knock on wood, but it appears the crazy high temp readings on 3 separate gauges and senders I have been getting for 3 summers now were ultimately the result of some funky wiring grounding thing. Wow what a relief!
>>>
>>> But of course, another prob popped up (although everything seems downhill minor from here on). Sometimes the key would crank and sometimes absolutely nothing. Tracked it down to the shifter. Pulled it apart, poked around, traced it to a prob with the Pollak switch that controls forward or reverse. It was sticking, and not sending juice to the white wire while in neutral. Actually went further and did some surgery on the switch - drilled out the rivets, carefully took it apart. All plastic, and a crucial plastic piece in there is broken in half. Have it in the vice tonight and am hoping I can glue it back together strong enough to hold. Not fun. Fortunately, Have an older shifter as back up just in case, but it doesn't have the ":won't start in F/R" wires.
>>>
>>> Anyway, on to my question - what exactly does the adjustment screw right above the red throttle lever do? it doesn't look broken to me, but seems to be doing nothing. Is it a friction adjustment for the lever?
>>>
>>> jeff d
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OMC-Boats mailing list
>>> OMC-Boats@...
>>> http://lists.ultimate.com/mailman/listinfo/omc-boats
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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